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How is this sear toe in your opinion?

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What a bummer! Putting my Early Keland back together after browning the metal and noticed this defect.
I sent this photo and my receipt off to the seller and hope to get a replacement ASAP. There is a smoothbore match coming up at the end of May and I haven't even sighted the long gun in.
Larry






IMG_6509.jpeg
 
What a bummer! Putting my Early Keland back together after browning the metal and noticed this defect.
I sent this photo and my receipt off to the seller and hope to get a replacement ASAP. There is a smoothbore match coming up at the end of May and I haven't even sighted the long gun in.
Larry






View attachment 315568
If that’s supposed to be the finished ground edge, no. Sloppy workmanship and that’s an area you don’t need off or crumbling at a later date.
 
Hi Larry,
Often cast parts look like that and need to be cleaned up. All of Chambers locks need the internal parts polished and stoned. They all have casting seams, cast texture, and rough edges that need to be removed or cleaned up. When you get a Chambers lock the inside of the plate has been ground flat, the edge faces of the tumbler are ground, and the outside of the bridle (not the inside that matters) is ground smooth. Nothing else. For the other manufacturers you don't even get that. All the casting seams remain, the sear usually shows no polishing at all on any surface. The good news is the castings are superb and usually fit very well but they can all benefit from cleaning up and polishing. The only locks you can buy that do not need to be worked on at all are Chris Laubach's. Even Jim Kibler's locks should have the cast texture and any casting seams polished away on the parts that are cast if you want something that looks historically correct. Having written all that, I also understand that many of the parts needing attention are hardened and tempered. That makes cleaning them up a pain in the butt because you cannot file them except with diamond files and stones. I have no problem because I routinely anneal everything, clean, fit, and polish it up, and then harden and temper the components.

Anyway, the nose of that sear needs to be filed flat with a diamond file or stone but then you may find the change causes the sear bar to drop lower on the lock plate. Then you may need to adjust your trigger. Everyone reading this post remember this really, really well. You can rarely do just one thing to a flintlock. Every change usually results in some other unexpected issue. You have to understand the mechanism as a system with every component linked in a network. Change one thing, and you will likely have to change something else.

dave
 
If that’s supposed to be the finished ground edge, no. Sloppy workmanship and that’s an area you don’t need off or crumbling at a later date.
I thought about stoning, but that is actually a horizontal cavity. Sure I can stone it, but then the toe would be shorter than designed. Not takin any chances. Don't ever remember a sear like this one and I have been making guns since the 70s.
Hi Larry,


Anyway, the nose of that sear needs to be filed flat with a diamond file or stone but then you may find the change causes the sear bar to drop lower on the lock plate. Then you may need to adjust your trigger. Everyone reading this post remember this really, really well. You can rarely do just one thing to a flintlock. Every change usually results in some other unexpected issue. You have to understand the mechanism as a system with every component linked in a network. Change one thing, and you will likely have to change something else.

dave
Dave,
Respectfully, I never thought I would disagree with one who is so far above my abilities, but have to here. Why do I want to do all that when the manufacture should make it right?
Love your guns and all your knowlegable input here!
Larry
 
Anyway, the nose of that sear needs to be filed flat with a diamond file or stone but then you may find the change causes the sear bar to drop lower on the lock plate. Then you may need to adjust your trigger. Everyone reading this post remember this really, really well. You can rarely do just one thing to a flintlock. Every change usually results in some other unexpected issue. You have to understand the mechanism as a system with every component linked in a network. Change one thing, and you will likely have to change something else.
Any time I got involved with working any of the engagement surfaces on a tumbler or sear I found it best to have a solid jig or fixture to hold and locate the components and setup on a surface grinder. No doubt some have the skill for working those surfaces with minimal fixturing or even totally freehand with stones and diamond files, I just don’t trust myself with those critical angles and surfaces.
 
I thought about stoning, but that is actually a horizontal cavity. Sure I can stone it, but then the toe would be shorter than designed. Not takin any chances. Don't ever remember a sear like this one and I have been making guns since the 70s.

Dave,
Respectfully, I never thought I would disagree with one who is so far above my abilities, but have to here. Why do I want to do all that when the manufacture should make it right?
Love your guns and all your knowlegable input here!
Larry
Hi Larry,
You are right. The buyer should not have to do that. Back in the 19th century you could buy a flintlock in a hardware store that was superior to almost all those made today. Unfortunately, the only locks made today that have no issues right from the box without any polishing inside or out, are those made by Chris Laubach but his locks cost $375. A Chamber's lock worked over by me to my satisfaction would cost about the same or maybe more. An L&R lock worked over by me to an 18th century acceptable standard would cost $450-$500 if I charged what my time is worth. When I write "to my satisfaction" I mean a level of performance common to good quality British locks made in the 18th and 19th centuries. Most modern flintlock shooters have never experienced those locks and have no idea about the level of performance expected at the time. A lowly Brown Bess lock was expected to ignite the powder in the pan 40 times in a row with no misfires using 1 flint. The French expected their model 1763 musket locks to ignite the pan 120 times in a row with no misfires using no more than 3 flints. There are virtually no modern made locks that can meet that performance without the gun maker working them over and there is almost nothing any of us can do to improve that situation except to learn how to improve our locks ourselves. Hence, I have posted many threads about locks, their geometry, how to work them over, etc, and how to help yourselves rather than depend on the manufacturer. That may not seem fair but it is reality.

dave
 
The casting marks should always be removed from the engaging surfaces at the very least, any change in the geometry will be slight and the two rough surfaces rubbing together would have changed it anyway over time and use, and probably not evenly.

Personally, I disassemble the lock and remove ALL casting marks, I think a lock blued or browned with casting marks looks...........I dunno, just not right.
 
Great advice above. Getting a new sear would be the ticket it seems as stoning till those divots were gone might shorten things too much as Dave said.

If I had to fix it I’d anneal, file the nose off, saw a slot, insert and braze in place a thin piece of spring steel to make the new nose extending out from the sear, quench after the braze flows, temper to bronze color, and stone it to shape. I believe worn sears were repaired this way back in the day. I’ve done it and it works but it’s a morning’s work. I’m only mentioning this for those who have a sear that can’t be replaced off someone’s shelf.
 
Sure wish at least one of you people who know what you are doing would make a DVD of how to build a Siler kit for us unenlightened 10 thumbed wanna-be's. Don't spend a lot of time editing. Make it like Bill Raby does...long and detailed with every trick he can show somewhere on the disk.
 
If that’s supposed to be the finished ground edge, no. Sloppy workmanship and that’s an area you don’t need off or crumbling at a later date.
Locks where got rusty by neglect but never' browned 'by intent that's a modern notion .
Rudyard
 
Locks where got rusty by neglect but never' browned 'by intent that's a modern notion .
Rudyard
Can you translate please?
Locks were either left in the white or case hardened and polished back, then left to develop a patina. They were not rust browned like many do today.
 
The casting marks should always be removed from the engaging surfaces at the very least, any change in the geometry will be slight and the two rough surfaces rubbing together would have changed it anyway over time and use, and probably not evenly.

Personally, I disassemble the lock and remove ALL casting marks, I think a lock blued or browned with casting marks looks...........I dunno, just not right.
to me they look like what one would buy in the pirates of the Caribbean gift shop at Disney land in the 60's
don't know why tat got the bold treatment.
 
The bold treatment ! I seem to get that a lot I think its a positive or take it as one. Regards Rudyard Who boldly goes where no one in heir tiny mind dares to go . Thats meant as humour . R
 

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