How low can you go?

[NAA_Silent]

I'm thinking about making the 70 mile drive to Manteca.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Cap Smacker and NAA Silent, I join in mourning with you for our loss of freedoms. NAA, I have had to use APP before and have found a few tricks on how to best get good results. The first and most important fact is, as you mentioned, once you open the container you have at best 3 weeks to use it before you start getting diminishing power. Get balls and patches ready open a can and shoot like crazy, which ain’t a bad thing.

APP is very sensitive to compression pressure. If you compress it hard it will burn well but your velocities will be erratic. If you compress it lightly your velocities will be more consistent but low and it will not burn as evenly, not that the fowling will be any different, but you will be able to hear the difference in the report when it goes off.

My 58 shot well at 55 grains and at 90 grains of 3Fg. with PRB. If you are consistent in your seating pressure you will get good results. Clean it well after use. I never trust any of the substitutes as to their claims about cleaning.

As to how do they police the powder law, well, if you have it shipped to your home you will get a visit from DOJ and Home Land Security soon after arrival and possessing more than the allotted amount of powder is a felony and if convicted you get to not own any firearms at all as well as other fun stuff.

 

[Col. Batguano]

You are right to be conservative on legal things. Becoming a convicted felon will ruin the rest of your life. Many professions are closed to you, it's tough to get credit. And, your kids will have to explain things in to their futures too. It's just not worth it.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Do not throw those plastic tubes your American Pioneer came in. They are handy to put other powders in when you go hunting.

If you can find some Triple Seven I'd use that before I bought any american pioneer. On the other hand you can make the american pioneer work and I have gotten good groups with it.

 

[asbrown]

I know a lot of guys here don't like APP but I just don't understand it. I've used it for years and gotten very consistant results. 4" 5 shot groups at 100yds. are very common with my 54. My .36 shoots the X out at 25yds all day long. I can't speak to it losing power with age because an open bottle never lasts me more than a year. My 20guage never "bounces a ball off the board" (a rediculous claim if I ever heard one) I would suggest you use the APP and enjoy. If it ever fails you thengo through the gyrations of getting something else.

 

[NAA_Silent]

I've actually had poor performance from 3f AP in the past. I would open a brand new can and use a set load in my 44 Navy. I'd shoot 50-100 rounds just fine. A month later, that same load, from the same canister, wouldn't even get the balls to the target. I actually watched one ball fall to the ground about 10 feet short of the target. I had to increase my load by nearly 10 grains to get a similar performance. I won't run AP in my pistols anymore because of that.

 

[Spikebuck]

I know a lot of guys here don't like APP but I just don't understand it.

Here's why I don't like APP...1/2 the velocity. .54 caliber 34" barrel 90grs 2F APP, .530 RB...937 FPS average 24" in front of the muzzle. Triple seven..1924 FPS average. And that was with a jar less than one month old.

As a hunter, I want a powder that actually has some oomph behind it.

I also had very bad experience with ignition in small caliber percussion rifles with the 3F (.32 and .36).

With so many significantly better alternatives, the two pounds I have are just sitting getting dusty. Refuse to use it. :v

 

[William O.]

I tried APP when I was reloading CF for cowboy action matches and got very inconsistent results with CF cartridges, then tried to get it to work in my 1858 Remingtons, leading me to really hate the stuff. Triple 7 on the other hand, worked well in both CF cartridges, with great velocity and enough smoke to meet the requirements for the BP catagory as well as in my first front stuffer, a caplock Lyman Trade Rifle in 54 caliber. I've since learned where to buy Goex but if I couldn't real black and had a choice of subs, T-7 would get the nod. If I needed fertilizer and it was free then APP it would be.

 

[NAA_Silent]

40 rounds later, and a full day at the range, and I'm a happy camper :thumbsup: I wound up running the .490 balls with the .015 patches, and they seemed to fit perfectly to me. Not loose enough to move if tapped barrel down, but loose enough that I didn't have to fight to get them to seat. I did use the AP powder at about 50 grains, and they were very pleasant to shoot. Twards the end of the day, I bumped up to about 75 grains. Stiffer, but not bad at all. I alcohol swabbed the barrel every 4-6 shots, and that kept the carbon fouling down. Accuracy was a bit hit or miss until I had a chance to use the 25 yard sight in targets.

When we first arrived at the range, everything was taken except for a couple of 100 yard targets. Couldn't find the paper at all, but I had fun making smoke anyway. Once the 25 yard sight in targets opened up, I was able to adjust the sights proper, and spent the last 15 rounds or so playing on the 50 yard line. I'm looking forward to the next trip to the range to try the 100 with properly adjusted sights.

Only 2 issues for the day. 1: Yup, I dry balled Poured a couple grains of some 777 thru the screw hole and fired the ball. It came right out and all was right with the world again. I used the 777 because 1, I had it, and 2, the grains were much smaller than the AP.

Second issue, the rear sight came off in my hand. Cheap plastic sightightenedgtened them up a bit more, no harm, no fdefiantlyefinatly had a blast shooting this 50, and I know I will shoot it a lot more!