How Many F's??

[sse]

I've heard the rule of thumb is that if the bore is anything bigger than .50, go with FFg. Am I the only one who follows that?? Seems like most everbuddy goes with finer than that even in the larger bores, reason bieng is accuracy, from what I heard. I've also heard that using too fine a powder for the job at hand is overly harmful to the bore.

Is the finer powder generally more accurate??

Thanks, sse

 

Back in the 70's I petty much switched over to double F. At that time, I was shooting .50's and larger, but even in the .45, it gave better accuracy and less fouling than the 3F then available.
: Around '86, when I had (Brother)Taylor make me up the .69 English rifle(a joint effort), I used 3F for 3-dram target loads, but 2F for the large hunting charges as it seemed more accurate due to the lower pressures generated. When loaded to the same pressure/velocity with 3F, the accuracy wasn't there using 3F. The 3F fouled more and burned the patches I was comfortable with loading at that time, especially with the WW balls I generally used.(they would't Obturate to fill the rifling & therefore gass cut) With 82gr.(3dram) loads, the velocity of 1,225fps was sufficient to give accuracy to over 100yds, yet when loading 2F to get the same velocity, it took 115gr. and kicked a lot more therefore the 3F loading.
: With hunting charges of 165gr. 2F, accuracy was all that could be hoped for. The third leaf of my rear sight was regulated for 300yds and held that setting, with that load till today.
; That said, I think a guy has to try both to see what shoots best with his/her style and combinaton of loading. I have used 2F in as small as .36 with perfect results, albeit lower velocities per charge.
: It wasn't until late 1990's that I switched to 3F for most of my shooting,(.45 cal flint) however the 14 bored rifle still got 2F for it's massive charges. It took 200gr. of 1F to match velocity with 165gr. 2F which matched 125gr. 3F. In firing, the 3F obviously developed too-rapid pressure which caused problems with my ball-patch combo. It FELT and SOUNDED too high in pressure and had "Sharp" recoil.
: 2F thumped a good deal, but lacked the sharpness of 3F recoil. 1F in 200gr. loads merely thumped a GREAT deal, but didn't seem to foul much more.
: I've seen it written that you must use 3F due to 2F fouling to much, but that hasn't been my experience.
Daryl

 

[sse]

Interesting.

 

[Spot Shooter]

I'm using FF and it's working in my GPR so far.

SPot

 

[Ohio Joe]

Usually powder selection will be found in the manufactures recommendation booklet that comes with a factory made muzzle loader. They will state; 2fg for .50 caliber and up, 3fg for .45 caliber and down. 4fg is for priming a fintlock... (I do not know about inline recommendations)... I have always felt and followed that you can go one caliber higher with 3fg recommended by mfg., and one caliber lower with 2fg recommended by mfg. It really boils down to what works for you. When living in Ohio years ago, I used 3fg in my .45 and .50 calibers. It seemed to work better at the lower elevation and in the high humidity. (We won't even talk about the humidity in the south). Living in Nebraska, I use 2fg in my .45 and .50 calibers as it works better (for me) at this elevation and humidity levels. My .54's even like it. I will always use 3fg in my flintlock rifles no matter if it is .45 or .50 caliber. Test the powders available in your area to see what works best for you. Use safe loads, and I have never found an advantage by duplexing a 3f and 2f load. Just thought I'd throw that in. It has been a long, long time since I bought a factory made muzzle loading rifle, perfering to make my own, so the manufactures recommendations may have changed?

 

[roundball]

I've settled on Goex FFFg for all .45, .50 & .54cal loads.
60grns targets - 90grns hunting are fast, clean, & accurate.
Hornady or Speer .440's /.490's /.530's
Oxyoke prelubed wonderwads
.018" prelubed pillow ticking patches

 

[bulletman]

Are you guys gettin any good accuracy with low loads ? like under 80 of FF or FFF ?......seems I cant get good groups except for up around 100. If so, how big groups at 50 yards ?

 

[sabotloader]

I am a new guy jumping here so give me some room for error. I have been using 2f-T7 since it became available in all of my muzzleloaders (4 sidelocks - 4 inlines). I recently, last year, built a Thompson Hawken from parts. I acquired a Green Mountain Barrel 1/28 and a Thompson stock (second I got from Track) The only breech plug I could find to mate up with the barrel was a NEW Thompson worm channel breech, they designed so you could shoot pellets in a sidelock. I used this gun exclusivly during the cold winter. With either #11's or Musket caps it was very unreliable. To my best estimation the 2f powder was two course to get through the channel and under the nipple. It would take the ignition of 3/4 caps to finally get things warmed up enough
to get fire down the 1/2" long channel to ignite the load. Absolutely no problem in warmer weather it would always go off. Since moving to 3f there is no such problem, and I have verified the powder is getting under the nipple. I have moved this way in all of the sidelocks even though the Lyman, Renegade, and CVA probably don't need it.

 

[Ohio Joe]

"Harpman", I don't know what your shooting but where I live and hunt I use 70 grains 2fg in my .50, and .54 (Green Mountain Barrels x 36 inches) to take Deer and Antelope at ranges up to 130 yards. The ball still goes through them at that distance, my longest shot being 137 yards, my shortest being 46 yards. I've been fortunate enough to go through their lungs each time, honest truth! As for target loads in my cross stick rifles which I use to practice winning the NMLRA Buffalo Match some day, I use; 65 grains of 2fg at 50 and one hundred yards and can still outscore the recorded National Championship score for each year. (I'm sure that will change when I goe east in 2005). As for shoots at Rendezvous, I use my .45 caliber flintlock and load 50 grains of 3fg. The target I'm after will depend on the size of my load in some cases such as having to knock over a metal target at a certain distance.

 

[bulletman]

shootin 54 GPR, must be something I am doing, I dont know., I checked the balls last nite, I dropped some down the barrel, they will fall down, some falll down with tapping the barrel, and all will come back out when tipping the rifle upside down, none were loose at all, just enough to fall through, my patches are regular pillow ticking from walmart and crisco, home made pure lead cast balls.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Are you using blue pillow ticking that you have washed and dried before lubing, and are you using .530 or .535 lead round balls?

 

[musketman]

I once used Fg (1F) in my Brown Bess, I thought anything above .62 caliber required a slower burning propellant...

I spent more time cleaning than shooting...

I run FFg in my Bess now, as well as the .58 Zouave...

I tried FFFg in the big bores, I found thet I got a lot of burned through patches with the faster burning powders, switched back to double F and that elematated the patch holes...

And to think, when we were kids, getting "F's" was a bad thing... :winking:

 

[bulletman]

535 balls, red ticking, washed dryed lubed lightly with crisco.
I measued, the balls are actually varying between 535-540, the grooves measure 560 in the bore, the patch ball combo comes out between 560-570
I used my calipers in the end of the barrel, and hope its correct, I couldnt get the lands measure, the way they sit, you got a groove and a land across from eachother, but it looked like I got a good measurement on the groove.
my recovered patches look pretty clean, no burns, maybe light rings, but they all have 5 distinct pin holes from the rifling.

 

[Ohio Joe]

I almost ordered some 1fg the last time I got powder, but my wife won't let me buy a cannon... :boohoo: She says, "You have enough guns"..."I don't have enough big guns", I told her... I still don't have a cannon... :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

 

[musketman]

I measued, the balls are actually varying between 535-540, the grooves measure 560 in the bore, the patch ball combo comes out between 560-570
I used my calipers in the end of the barrel, and hope its correct, I couldnt get the lands measure, the way they sit, you got a groove and a land across from eachother, but it looked like I got a good measurement on the groove.

Harpman:
Measure the depth of one of the riflings (land to groove), then subtract this twice (once for each side of the bore) to the grooves measurement...

Example: (dont know what the depth of your riflings are, so I will use .008" in this example...)

Grooves measurement: .560 inch
Depth of riflings: .008 inch x 2...
Lands measurement: .544 inch

560 - 16 = 544

 

[Ohio Joe]

"Harpman",,,I'm guessing you had some blown patches and leading in the bore may have resulted? I would suggest the following; 1... get some "Shooter's Choice" or anything that will remove leading and bore brush your barrel good,,,after that give it a good cleaning... 2...switch to the heavier blue pillow ticking... 3...start out with 60 grains 2fg or 3fg if you perfer and work your load up from there checking your patches to make sure they're not blowing through anywhere. Work your load up in 5 grain increments... (If this doesn't solve your problem, we'll talk about polishing the bore, and maybe recrowning?) Good luck...

 

[Ohio Joe]

"Harpman",,, I didn't catch your entire post until just now. Pin holes could be developed when starting the patched ball and or could be from to lite a patch being used. A good patch is no holes whatsoever in it after firing. Try what I recommended on the previous post.

 

[bulletman]

Thanks much for the help, I will work on this, this weekend. I didnt know the ticking was different thickness, red and blue. I do have some lead remover, and brushes, will get the blue tick tomorow.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Let me know how it works out for you. Glad to help.

 

Yes - patch thickness needs increasing and re-crown or polish the bore as well is good. I've found .020" to .030" Denim to be very tough. You should be able to shoot a 5-shot, one hole group at 50yds, using the SAME patch over and over again, iF the crown is proper and barrel not rough in the breech. I stopped using ticking as I found the stuff available here to require washing - we hates washing -(ticking). The backs of the legs of old jeans works great & usually is .025 to .028" compressed for .010" under bore size, balls.
Daryl