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How Many F's??
- Thread starter sse
- Start date
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I'll have to start trying the lower charges to see what happens. Right now I don'take out anything but the 100 grainer. I'll stick to FFg. I have no ignition problems etc. The fella talkin about 777 should know that's a whole different animal!!
Don't know about you other guys, but denim is pretty easy to come by. Wear a pair of 14 dollar Wranglers from Walmart on and off for about 90 days and they'll be torn and such bad enough. That's all it takes.
Reegahds, and thanks fer your response, sse
Don't know about you other guys, but denim is pretty easy to come by. Wear a pair of 14 dollar Wranglers from Walmart on and off for about 90 days and they'll be torn and such bad enough. That's all it takes.
Reegahds, and thanks fer your response, sse
Crow-Feather
32 Cal.
When I load for accuracy, I put a dry patch down over the powder and then load the patched round ball. Works as well as a hornets nest and safer to get. Also, there are many thicknesseses of pillow ticking that I have found. Go to a - fabric store - uggh! and feel your way around. Just no synthetics.
C F
C F
OK, got the denim, it is alot thicker, I also deleaded, let it soak and used a bronze brush, did that twice, now I can get about 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards with the lower loads. 50-70 grains. I think it still should be better, the pin holes are faint on these patches but still there, I read somewhere running steel wool over the jag helps, is that safe to try ?, or should I polish with something ? oh, the blue ticking measures the same as my red.
Guest
3f runs up pressure more than 2f,finer the powder the higher the pressure.As a rule,using a finer powder means that you should drop the charge by 10 to 20 percent.For .50 cal and up,heavy hunting loads should be 2f,where if you are target shooting with lighter loads,3f is ok,and might burn cleaner.That is the advice I was given by the oldtimers when I started out.
I agree with, "roundball"... Also, by "shooting in" a new barrel you will discover the rifle's likes, and dislikes... If you decide to polish the bore, I would suggest; use 3 or 4 ot steel wool. Wrap that steel wool on a .45 caliber bronze bore brush so it fits snug in a .54 bore. From the muzzle to the breech take 15 to 20 strokes but do not remove the steel wool from the bore on each stroke,,,only on the last stroke... I would still give the heavier blue pillow ticking a try. It might be that the denim is too thick and causing you to stress the patch on loading which can create a pinhole gas blow by.
Guest
I would only use 4-OUGHT or 0000 steel wool. This will polish the bore just fine, without hurting it. Another way is with flitz or Solvol on a patch. With solvent, about 50 strokes will emove the 'feather' and brighten the longitudinal 'lines' in the barrel, making it load and clean much better.
; The 'pin' holes might be from sharp lands (probably) with a cut rifled barrel. If the barrel is buttoned, there shouldn't be any 'feather'. Perhaps the crown is a ibt 'sharp?
; Shoot it for awhile and see if it improves - it shouldn't take more than 50 to 100 shots to show improvement and put a stop to burning pin holes or any other kind of burning. Good luck!!
Daryl
; The 'pin' holes might be from sharp lands (probably) with a cut rifled barrel. If the barrel is buttoned, there shouldn't be any 'feather'. Perhaps the crown is a ibt 'sharp?
; Shoot it for awhile and see if it improves - it shouldn't take more than 50 to 100 shots to show improvement and put a stop to burning pin holes or any other kind of burning. Good luck!!
Daryl
Ahhhhh, what a day, I shot one can of pyro RS, I have a lump on my shoulder, and thats with a custom leather pad I made, by the end of the day, I come up with clover leafs and occasional flyers out to 2-3 inches at 50 yards. I started cleaning between shots first with a dry patch incase the lead was soft, not wanting to cool it , then a wet one then a dry one, and I think it may have helped, I did that about 20 times. my last shots were 60 grains, and nice and tight, I still wont give up though. As soon as I can I will get a supply of BP FFG. It seems to be smoother shooting than pyro.I do have 2 yards of denim and 2 of the blue ticking I will grease up on sunday and go back at it. THANKS for all the help on this guys. So far I think I only have about 15 pounds of powder through this rifle, so I guess its not really broke in yet.
Guest
Harpman- I didn't know you were using pyro - sorry. I've not gotten as good accuracy with pyrodex as BP so I use only BP. In the ML it USED to be very touchy as to loading pressure, much more so than BP. According to the literature, it still is, equiring much, equal compression to shoot well.
: In ctg. guns, Pyrodex is doing well to make it down to 30fps, low to high velocity spreads - three times the variation in velocity comapred with BP. 30fps doesn't sound like much, but the ML will be getting more than that. The different velocites doesn't make much difference due to velocity, but recoil variations & vibration variations do and that can cause vertical stringing or plain lrger groups from vibration differences. How do your groups look? Round, but larger than they should be, or vertical groups, higher than wider?
: I haven't chronographed a muzzleloading rifle since my .69 English Rifle, but it ran 5fps low to high on a ten shot string, using 2F GOEX. Pyrodex usualy ran 50 to 60fps variation in the 1,200fps loads.
; Hope the 2F does it for you. Concentrate on each shot like it was your last. & sqeeze that trigger. It has been stated that 50% of a ML rifle's accurcy is in the loading. Consistancy is the jewel to strive for. Consistancy is where the pyrodex is inferior to BP. That's why the best 1,000 yd. BP ctg. shooters don't use it. 30fps difference apparently is 2' at 1,000 yds.
aryl
: In ctg. guns, Pyrodex is doing well to make it down to 30fps, low to high velocity spreads - three times the variation in velocity comapred with BP. 30fps doesn't sound like much, but the ML will be getting more than that. The different velocites doesn't make much difference due to velocity, but recoil variations & vibration variations do and that can cause vertical stringing or plain lrger groups from vibration differences. How do your groups look? Round, but larger than they should be, or vertical groups, higher than wider?
: I haven't chronographed a muzzleloading rifle since my .69 English Rifle, but it ran 5fps low to high on a ten shot string, using 2F GOEX. Pyrodex usualy ran 50 to 60fps variation in the 1,200fps loads.
; Hope the 2F does it for you. Concentrate on each shot like it was your last. & sqeeze that trigger. It has been stated that 50% of a ML rifle's accurcy is in the loading. Consistancy is the jewel to strive for. Consistancy is where the pyrodex is inferior to BP. That's why the best 1,000 yd. BP ctg. shooters don't use it. 30fps difference apparently is 2' at 1,000 yds.
arylDon't damage your shoulder if your developing a lump and it's sore. There's always another day to shoot. I've seen many cases where the "barked" pain of one's shoulder results in fatigue and we don't get the accuracy we know we're capable of... If I read your post right, you've shot 15 pounds of powder through this rifle already? This being the case the barrel should at this point be well broke in... I think I'd give myself a little time to heal that shoulder then go back at it... With the knowledge you've shot close to 15 pounds of powder through this GPR, I'd say it's nothing more than finding the right patch and ball combination. I'm assuming this GPR is the; .54 cal., 1 in 60 twist with .010 depth rifling,,, and not the Lyman Great Plains Hunter Rifle with; 1 in 32 twist. .007 depth rifling? Both Investarms products...
Good Lord, if you've already put 15lbs of powder through this rifle, it's pretty safe to say it's well broken in.
Just a thought about that very thick denim you mentioned... there is a possibility to use a patch so thick and stiff that it may not fill and grab the grooves consistently.
If it was me, a simple inexpensive test at this point would be to just buy a bag of oxyoke wonder wads to use as over-powder wads...you should no longer see patch failures and should see an immediate increase in accuracy / consistency
Just a thought about that very thick denim you mentioned... there is a possibility to use a patch so thick and stiff that it may not fill and grab the grooves consistently.
If it was me, a simple inexpensive test at this point would be to just buy a bag of oxyoke wonder wads to use as over-powder wads...you should no longer see patch failures and should see an immediate increase in accuracy / consistency
I think I am taking a break today for my shoulder. The groups were just larger before, pretty much round but too large, I do have a mess of various oxyoke patches that I started with, but realized they were to thin, so i can use those to expierement with as the cushions, one time yesterday i forgot to load powder, so i took the nipple out and poured some in that way, when the ball and patch come out, I could see the land marks on the ball, the patch had no holes at all.that was with the denim, I washed and dryed it once before using. Its pretty soft. We have a gunshow here this weekend coming, I'm hoping to get some BP then, If not I will order or head up to Atlanta and get some. It is the GPR, 1/60 twist, not the hunter barrel.
Guest
Oops- sorry, missed the 15lb. of powder expended deal. Yes, the barrel won't have new-barrel problems at all. One problem it could have is an injured crown from rod-wear. It's also possible the Lyman barrel is giving you all it can.
: Have you consiered a replacement barrel?
: Out of, perhaps, 30 Green Mountain barrels used by my brother and myself, we've not had any that wouldn't shoot into 2" to 2 1/2" at 100yds. off the bags. A 10 thou under ball, and .020" denim patch has ALWAYS worked - in every one of them, regarless of calibre, with the exception of the 20bore smoothies.
Daryl
: Have you consiered a replacement barrel?
: Out of, perhaps, 30 Green Mountain barrels used by my brother and myself, we've not had any that wouldn't shoot into 2" to 2 1/2" at 100yds. off the bags. A 10 thou under ball, and .020" denim patch has ALWAYS worked - in every one of them, regarless of calibre, with the exception of the 20bore smoothies.
Daryl
I was wondering about those barrels, glad you mentioned that, how much would the green mountain, for lyman GPR cost ? also would it be a slower twist than the lymans 60?, How is the Green MB better than the lyman ? I dont doubt it, just curious about it.
Guest
GreenMountain barrels are cut rifled as should all that have slow twist, RB rifling in them. .008 or deeper is too deep for buttoning. Hall Sharon tried it back in the 70's and the barrels ended up having ribs running cross-sways (circular) inside. tight/loose/tight/loose/tight/loose- you get the drift.
GM barrels are airguaged to insure conentricity within .0002" I believe. That is, the barrel varies no more than 2 tenthousanths inside. BTW, Douglas and Shilen's parameters are about the same in their best barrels. Normal, non match Shilen barrels for modern ctgs. are within .0003". These also make extremely accurate rifles too.
: Factory barrels generally lack the care and precision of a 'custom' barrel. Factories(gun makers) are interested in the fastest, cheapest way of producing a product.
: I've seen where guys have written they had trouble getting GM barrels to shoot well. I've personally seen guys having trouble getting Lilja, PacNor, Shilen, Douglas, Getz and Colerain barrels to shoot well, too.
: In BP shooting, there is a VERY long learning curve. You're never finished learning. Thing's, as in components, etc, change and we get to learn some more. We're all learning as we go along. We never stop learning. If you do stop - then someone who doesn't will beat you with new conditons - gotta keep experimenting and learning - & practising. The products we use change with time & you've got to stay on top of them.
: The major problem with BP accuracy shooting, is consistancy. 50% of a BP rifle's accuracy is in the loading.
: I've seen inexpensive factory rifles like TC's and Lyman Rifles win matches against custom rifles. EVERY time this has happened, the ones shooting the custom rifles have been new shooters begining the learning curve. We all start there. I've never seen a gun company ML rifle in the top ten where good, experienced shooters are shooting custom barrels which includes GM barrels. We are very fortunate they are priced so well. GM barrels actually rein in the norhern area here, due to their number. There are also barrels from other mfgr's. and we all share the lime light.
: In my opinion, of course.
Daryl
GM barrels are airguaged to insure conentricity within .0002" I believe. That is, the barrel varies no more than 2 tenthousanths inside. BTW, Douglas and Shilen's parameters are about the same in their best barrels. Normal, non match Shilen barrels for modern ctgs. are within .0003". These also make extremely accurate rifles too.
: Factory barrels generally lack the care and precision of a 'custom' barrel. Factories(gun makers) are interested in the fastest, cheapest way of producing a product.
: I've seen where guys have written they had trouble getting GM barrels to shoot well. I've personally seen guys having trouble getting Lilja, PacNor, Shilen, Douglas, Getz and Colerain barrels to shoot well, too.
: In BP shooting, there is a VERY long learning curve. You're never finished learning. Thing's, as in components, etc, change and we get to learn some more. We're all learning as we go along. We never stop learning. If you do stop - then someone who doesn't will beat you with new conditons - gotta keep experimenting and learning - & practising. The products we use change with time & you've got to stay on top of them.
: The major problem with BP accuracy shooting, is consistancy. 50% of a BP rifle's accuracy is in the loading.
: I've seen inexpensive factory rifles like TC's and Lyman Rifles win matches against custom rifles. EVERY time this has happened, the ones shooting the custom rifles have been new shooters begining the learning curve. We all start there. I've never seen a gun company ML rifle in the top ten where good, experienced shooters are shooting custom barrels which includes GM barrels. We are very fortunate they are priced so well. GM barrels actually rein in the norhern area here, due to their number. There are also barrels from other mfgr's. and we all share the lime light.
: In my opinion, of course.
Daryl
