How many times did a soldier in a pitched battle of the past actually shoot his weapon? Knowing what we know about black powder fouling and reloading, what happened when the typical soldier fired 5 or 6 times and couldn't force the ball down the barrel again?
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How Many Rounds did They Shoot?
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Early French and British "Belly" cartridge boxes held as few as 9 rounds. Later models held thirty to 40. The bayonet was the real weapon, the decisive factor in battle. Bt the time of the Civil War, cartridge boxes usually still held around 40 rounds. Some of the bullets had a zinc washer on the bottom to scour out fouling. I believe they were called "Williams" bullets.
Remember, both the earlier round ball loads and the later minie ball loads for rifled firearms were undersized to permit repeated loading without cleaning. As far as round ball riflemen go, I am not convinced that they did not bare-ball it in combat situations.
Remember, both the earlier round ball loads and the later minie ball loads for rifled firearms were undersized to permit repeated loading without cleaning. As far as round ball riflemen go, I am not convinced that they did not bare-ball it in combat situations.
Valid point, it don't take long shootin one of these fellers to see that fouling will put you in a world of hurt in a combat situation ... where you cannot spend time cleaning the bore. Sooo no patch or paper, just powder n ball and ... let her rip til you can slow down and clean the bore.
That is my undestanding of the smaller ball used by British forces in the Bess, due to fouling problems.
The bayonet from what I have read was in fact the weapon of choice for massed troops, once closed with the enemy. No time for that loading foolishness, just cut slash n run!. :hmm:
Davy
That is my undestanding of the smaller ball used by British forces in the Bess, due to fouling problems.
The bayonet from what I have read was in fact the weapon of choice for massed troops, once closed with the enemy. No time for that loading foolishness, just cut slash n run!. :hmm:
Davy
Civil War bullets came in packs of ten with one Williams "cleaner" bullet wrapped in blue paper.
Here are the three different types. Type 1 just had abrasive material around the base with no scraper. it is commonly believed cleaner bullets were discarded in battle because of their difficulty to load.
Here are the three different types. Type 1 just had abrasive material around the base with no scraper. it is commonly believed cleaner bullets were discarded in battle because of their difficulty to load.
I thought I had read that the device on the bottom of those style bullets were "expander plugs" to flare the bottom of the bullet to engage rifling...rebel727 said:Civil War bullets came in packs of ten with one Williams "cleaner" bullet wrapped in blue paper.
Here are the three different types. Type 1 just had abrasive material around the base with no scraper. it is commonly believed cleaner bullets were discarded in battle because of their difficulty to load.
grant said:
I read where Civil War soldier's loaded 15+ live rounds down the barrel and went through the motions of firing, recoil and all...
In the heat of battle, it is noisy and hard to see and a tad confusing, so it would be nothing to double load, or triple load, or quadruple load, or...
roundball said:I thought I had read that the device on the bottom of those style bullets were "expander plugs" to flare the bottom of the bullet to engage rifling...
You're thinking about the first Minies. They had a thicker skirt with a wooden expander plug that was wedge shaped. When the rifle was fired it forced the wedge into the base of the bullet and expanded it into the rifling. Later they thinned the skirt and relied on pressure alone to expand them. The scraper on cleaner bullets doesn't move during firing.
I figured that the round ball the military used in the Brown Bess(or other muskets) might be looser relative to the bore size than what we might consider to use. If the ball was loose for loading ease, what kept it from rolling away from the powder charge before firing? I wonder how many short start accidents they had.
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:v Muskets and rifles were picked up and examined by the army after battles and some were found to be stufed full of live loads clean to the muzzle. there is somewhere in the military records an extensive study of this battlefield phenemonon. Adrenalin does strange things to the humanmind and body. Bob
snake-eyes said:
They would forget to tear the first cartridge open so only the cap fired. After that it didn't matter if they tore the cartridge open or not, it still wouldn't fire so they just stacked load after load. In the heat of battle with guns going off all around them and being scared they couldn't tell their own gun didn't fire. To answer your question, if a cap did manage to burn through the paper cartridge and set it off it would have been very deadly to the shooter and prolly anyone next to him.
Fouling was more critical to the patched-round ball rifle than the musket. Controlled volley fire was important to optimize the effectiveness of the musket. After a few close range volleys, it was generally believed that the issue would be determined by the bayonet.
During the Civil War, it was not uncommon for soldiers to empty their cartridge boxes (40 minimum and some carried an extra 20 in their pockets) and then grab cartridges from the boxes of the fallen. Still, fouling being inherent in black powder, some soldiers were forced to drop their gun and grab one from the ground. Units would be rotated off the battlefield to allow replinishing of the cartridge box.
Now, as to accuracy, that's another matter and there's many accounts of branches and leaves being hit instead of the opponents.
During the Civil War, it was not uncommon for soldiers to empty their cartridge boxes (40 minimum and some carried an extra 20 in their pockets) and then grab cartridges from the boxes of the fallen. Still, fouling being inherent in black powder, some soldiers were forced to drop their gun and grab one from the ground. Units would be rotated off the battlefield to allow replinishing of the cartridge box.
Now, as to accuracy, that's another matter and there's many accounts of branches and leaves being hit instead of the opponents.
I read somewhere that the second volley at first Manassas was "like a flight of arrows" so many ramrods were shot ....and the third volley was only a half as loud as the first two, as guys without ramrods couldn't reload...the heat of battle ...Hank
Gary said:
Too a lot of soldiers aimed way too high, especially at longer ranges. I have read accounts of barrels getting so fouled they had to ram the ramrod against a tree to seat a bullet. This was especially true of using U.S. 58 Minie's in .577 Enfields, a common practice.
hank said:
I have a new theory about why cartridge guns replaced muzzleloaders. First, there were labor problems with the ramrod makers guild. They withheld delivery, hoping to drive up the price of ramrods so as to make the gun useless. This infuriated the government. Second, the tree huggers were angry because the trees were hurt and lobbied Congress for the adoption of breechloaders. Finally, the military itself wanted newer breechloaders since the shirkers couldn't deliberately fire off their ramrods and then retreat claiming that their gun was useless. This is Revisionist Hystery at its finest and you read it here first at TheMuzzleLoadingForum. :hatsoff:
grant said:
If I recall the details correctly, the militia on Bunker Hill fired a total of six volleys during the first and second assaults by the British. In the final assault, many of the militia were out of ammo or had only one round remaining. It devolved to bayonets, axes, and guns as clubs at that point.
At Bunker Hill, the Americans waited until the British were within about 50 yards to begin shooting. Longer engagement ranges would give time for another volley or two before the two sides came to grips. The accounts I recall reading usually describe three volleys delivered by the defenders before the lines closed or one side or the other broke. I think a dozen or so shots during any one engagement (two or three atttempts to close the lines) would be about right, but day-long encounters, multi-day battles and seiges would be a different matter.
Has anybody ever read Bernard Cornwell's Richard Sharpe series of historical novels? They are based on Wellington's Spainish peninsula campaign during the Napoleonic wars. He describes the various battles in a lot of detail though I take issue with his description of English soldiers "tap" loading their muskets and Baker rifles when the action got heated. They supposedly would drop a ball in the barrel and slam the weapon's but on the ground to seat the ball. Something I think he made up. He also writes of soldiers urinating into their weapons to clean out fouling.
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