Considering muskets shooting charge was 2FF they had to have the larger touch hole as the powder for the main shot was also the same powder used to prime. As the troops were instructed in school of the soldier several steps and one of them after TEAR CARTRIDGE was PRIME then CLOSE PAN at that same time place the stall on the frizzen (that part isn't written in the manual of arms)
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how much prime to use
- Thread starter fleener
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I too have polished the pan on both my flint pistols, Pedersoli Mortimer and Calderwood Underhammer flint. I won't put my hand on my heart and say it's made a major difference but I was told to do it by a whiskery old shooter with vastly more experience than me who claimed the flash 'skidded' across the pan better if it was shiny! He was also a fan of bringing the priming charge away from the vent.
Sometimes the whiskery old fellows really know something and sometimes we repeat an observation that worked for us.
Polishing the pan works because fouling won't build up and draw moisture from the air.
Banking the powder away from the flash hole may not work as well as filling the pan to just under the touch hole. You need to try different methods to find out what works.
Polishing the pan works because fouling won't build up and draw moisture from the air.
Banking the powder away from the flash hole may not work as well as filling the pan to just under the touch hole. You need to try different methods to find out what works.
hanshi
Cannon
:hmm: The flash "skidded" across the pan? Interesting imagery.
Larry Pletcher
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Regarding the location of priming powder in the pan, I offer two links that detail experiments I did some years ago. The first shows photos taken through the muzzle. The comparison shows prime banked away from the vent and prime as close as possible to the vent:
photos through the muzzle
The second link reports the timing of ignition when the prime is banked away from the vent and prime against the barrel:
Vent timing banked away vs close to vent
Regards,
Pletch
photos through the muzzle
The second link reports the timing of ignition when the prime is banked away from the vent and prime against the barrel:
Vent timing banked away vs close to vent
Regards,
Pletch
rdstrain49
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Pletch, I generally don't watch the videos. Glad I watched yours, to me at lease, very interesting. Thanks
A practical experiment....
I shoot a double flint shotgun. I prime both pans casually but generally the same. I then forget it, toss the gun around any old whichaway necessary to protect myself from the charging bunnies. A moment's thought will show that whatever happens in the field to one barrel as far as position of the prime in the pan, the other pan will be the opposite. Tilt the gun to the right, prime on that side moves away from the vent, but the left moves toward it. Both barrels fire every time, and I can not sense any difference in the ignition times.
Based on that, I never pay any particular attention to the position of prime in the pan of any of my other flintlocks.
Spence
I shoot a double flint shotgun. I prime both pans casually but generally the same. I then forget it, toss the gun around any old whichaway necessary to protect myself from the charging bunnies. A moment's thought will show that whatever happens in the field to one barrel as far as position of the prime in the pan, the other pan will be the opposite. Tilt the gun to the right, prime on that side moves away from the vent, but the left moves toward it. Both barrels fire every time, and I can not sense any difference in the ignition times.
Based on that, I never pay any particular attention to the position of prime in the pan of any of my other flintlocks.
Spence
Larry Pletcher
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Your example is a good one. My senses cannot tell the difference either. I can measure differences that I cannot feel when shooting the gun. BTW when timing, my ears told me more than my eyes. My gut says that if one senses a differences, it is caused my other variables - like dirty vents, dull flints, etc.
Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
Different methods work on different locks and even gun to gun using the same lock.
I have a Traditions lock that NEVER wants to be filled more than half full and always wants the powder banked away from the flash hole (quick flick of the wrist to the right with the pan closed does that). My Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle uses a small lock, the same size you see on a lot of pistols.
I also have an Early Lancaster rifle by a private maker that uses an L&R Queen Anne lock. It's a much larger lock and that lock really doesn't much care if you put in a splash of powder of fill the pan to the rim. It will work pretty much regardless of how you fill it. I prefer to fill it with less powder than more just because it doesn't need more. But when I am in a hurry to load, such as in a reenactment battle, I just dump some in and it works.
So, if yours works well half-full and banked to one side, then use that method. If it doesn't, then try something else. Usually the rifle will tell you what it likes.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
I have a Traditions lock that NEVER wants to be filled more than half full and always wants the powder banked away from the flash hole (quick flick of the wrist to the right with the pan closed does that). My Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle uses a small lock, the same size you see on a lot of pistols.
I also have an Early Lancaster rifle by a private maker that uses an L&R Queen Anne lock. It's a much larger lock and that lock really doesn't much care if you put in a splash of powder of fill the pan to the rim. It will work pretty much regardless of how you fill it. I prefer to fill it with less powder than more just because it doesn't need more. But when I am in a hurry to load, such as in a reenactment battle, I just dump some in and it works.
So, if yours works well half-full and banked to one side, then use that method. If it doesn't, then try something else. Usually the rifle will tell you what it likes.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
hanshi
Cannon
I'd have to say that with all the moving around, bumping and wiggling one does in the bush, the powder in the pan could be at any location, banked whichever way or spread evenly. As long as I use the amount that works for me I ignore banking or shifting.
I rarely use my Traditions rifle anymore, but when it was my only gun, I'd always give a quick flick of the wrist to the right as I was mounting the gun to get the powder away from the flash hole.
Different guns prefer different things and my Early Lancaster with the L&R lock could care less about how much or whether or not it is banked away from the flash hole. It pretty much goes off anyway you do it. That Traditions rifle was much more finicky though, and if you wanted it to go off every time, you did that quick flip of the wrist.
Again...every gun is different and you just have to play around with it until you find what it likes best. Heck, that's half the fun of it!
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
Different guns prefer different things and my Early Lancaster with the L&R lock could care less about how much or whether or not it is banked away from the flash hole. It pretty much goes off anyway you do it. That Traditions rifle was much more finicky though, and if you wanted it to go off every time, you did that quick flip of the wrist.
Again...every gun is different and you just have to play around with it until you find what it likes best. Heck, that's half the fun of it!
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
hanshi
Cannon
I have a .45 Late Lancaster that you can't keep from going off. That large Siler is a sparking machine. My favorite rifle and the terror of every deer east of the Rockies. I prime up against the vent; but if it took a tumble down a hillside it would still fire instantly. I love it too much to "smack" it. :rotf:
I don't do anything with my Lancaster using the L&R lock either. It goes off pretty much regardless of how I load the pan or how I bounce it around.
The Traditions is a different story though. I don't smack it, but while I'm holding it with my hand around the wrist and finger along the trigger guard, just give it a quick, small, flick (clockwise and back) with my wrist.
Honestly I much prefer using a rifle where I don't have to think of that. But with the Traditions rifle, I have to do everything right to make it work well. Then as long as I do my part, it does its part.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
The Traditions is a different story though. I don't smack it, but while I'm holding it with my hand around the wrist and finger along the trigger guard, just give it a quick, small, flick (clockwise and back) with my wrist.
Honestly I much prefer using a rifle where I don't have to think of that. But with the Traditions rifle, I have to do everything right to make it work well. Then as long as I do my part, it does its part.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan
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I'll have to try that with my Traditions Shenandoah. It will shoot fine for 2-3 shots and then becomes finicky as heck and often gives a flash in the pan without going off. I often have to use a pick and force pan powder into the touch hole to get it to fire.
SMO,
Black powder was not hard to buy when I was most active at the range. I did know that the substitute powders do not perform at all well as priming powder for flintlocks.
The question has been presented to me was will black powder priming set off a flintlock loaded with one of the substitute powders?
This was suggested as a way to use a flintlock while using Black Powder primer in order to stretch out a meager supply of the the real stuff.
I have experience with this process so thought I would ask
an expert.
Dutch Schoultz
Black powder was not hard to buy when I was most active at the range. I did know that the substitute powders do not perform at all well as priming powder for flintlocks.
The question has been presented to me was will black powder priming set off a flintlock loaded with one of the substitute powders?
This was suggested as a way to use a flintlock while using Black Powder primer in order to stretch out a meager supply of the the real stuff.
I have experience with this process so thought I would ask
an expert.
Dutch Schoultz
stubshaft
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I have tried to use just Black (priming only) to set off the substitute powders and it didn't work well in any of my rifles (Large Silers and Durs Egg's). I have gone to using a small priming charge (10grs.) in my .50 cal. beneath Triple F or Pyrodex and have had no problems. Ultimately, to save on my meager supplies of Black I shoot my .32 Poorboy with 18gr. 3F almost exclusively now...
Col. Batguano
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Has anyone EVER been able to make the subs work as priming powder? I know it's reputed they don't work well, but will they EVER work? It would seem that witht he sparks at 2000 degrees, and the flash point of the subs around 850, that the math would certainly indicate they would, in theory work. I'm not going to waste my time trying (I have enough to keep straight and manage at the range as it is to conduct science experiments).
I will bet at the same rate as no prime IMHO.
Happens but reliable????
Happens but reliable????
As has often been seen, even a blind pig will occasionally find an acorn so, "will they EVER work" ?Col. Batguano said:
Undoubtedly the answer is yes.
Will they work reliably to ignite the main powder charge. IMO, the answer is, No.
As I've mentioned several times on the forum, for the powder in the pan to reliably light the main powder charge, the prime must burn with an instantaneous "POOF!!" that only black powder will do.
The slow "fizzle, fizzle, fizz" that the substitute black powders do when they are ignited out in the open air may or may not make enough flame to light the black powder inside the vent hole.
I suppose if the substitute powder completely filled the vent hole and pan and if it also actually lighted it would make the gun fire.
About the only good reason I can think of for trying to use the substitute for priming a flintlock is, you are out in the woods all alone.
You have used up all of your black powder for your flintlock. All you have is some substitute black powder.
You hear a noise and its getting closer. It's the dreaded blood sucking vampire zombie and it is looking for YOU.
You charge your trusty flintlock and pour some Pyrodex in the pan. Closing the frizzen, you wait.
Suddenly, there it is! Just a stone throw away!
You **** your flintlock, raise it quickly and pull the trigger.
Fizzzzzzl, fizz, fizzzzzzlll.......BOOM. The cursed thing drops to the ground wheezing and gasping. Then, all is silent.
"CUT! CUT! It's a take! Everyone, report for the next scene over on stage 7".
:rotf:
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
Ever thought of writing screen plays, Zonie? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
