How to assess the % of completion of a kit?

[innocent bystander]

Hi guys!

I purchased a Traditions percussion Kentucky kit to build for a Christmas present.

It's not a bad kit, but has several problems which I am glad I know a bit about building to be able to overcome. The inletting for the trigger guard was about a 1/4 inch short, the lock plate needed to be filed to allow the nipple drum to fit down into the stock, the fore stock (two-piece stock) needs to be steamed to take out a 1/8 inch warp to the right and finally, the nose cap screws were drilled off-center. I can fix all except the off-center screws, I'll just have to fudge the nose cap a little to the left and open up the ramrod channel.

So anyway, the people at Traditions say that this is a 95% complete kit. I'm thinking it's more like 70%. The problem as I see it is that they are selling these kits to people with no prior experience at building rifle kits. I would have to say, if I was a beginner, I'd probably put this in a box and toss it into the trash.

What is the consensus on the percentage of completion?

Reason I ask is that I intend to buy a nice kit from Jim Chambers to build for myself sometime in the next year or so and one of the people there says his rifle kits are about 95% complete.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Advertising is just that. Percentage of completion is the creation of some ad writer.

Reason I ask is that I intend to buy a nice kit from Jim Chambers to build for myself sometime in the next year or so and one of the people there says his rifle kits are about 95% complete.

Please give us a report on that experience.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I've built many guns from planks of wood and a gun that is 95% finished for me is one that just needs finish and nothing else. There are no quality kits out there meeting that criteria. Jim Kibler's mountain rifle kit comes closest. In comparison, Chamber's kits would be about 50% done if I am going to do any carving and engraving and maybe 70% if the gun is plain.

dave

 

[Black Hand]

Reason I ask is that I intend to buy a nice kit from Jim Chambers to build for myself sometime in the next year or so and one of the people there says his rifle kits are about 95% complete.

Excellent kits!
Your perception of % completion is based upon/biased by your level of experience. There was definitely less messing around with the Chambers kit due to the quality parts and tighter tolerances, but it was as much (or more) work as you might devote to a lesser kit to get it completed properly.

One could easily take $1200-1500 in Chambers parts and make a $300 rifle/smoothbore...

 

[54ball]

The old CVA Kentucky was never an easy project. CVA....Traditions....Jukar....same thing different decade. Rumor has it that those kits were factory seconds. As you have found out. You have real problems in basic fit.....pretty big ones to overcome like misaligned holes.....stuff like that. Really you have to fix them as much as build them.

Chambers and Track of the Wolf plus others are parts sets.

96 percent complete?!......Compared to iron ore in the ground and maple and walnut trees in the forrest, from that state I quess you could consider them 96% complete.

As far as you are concerned consider them 0 percent complete. Everything will need fitting. Unlike the Traditions though, every part is made to mesh and fit together so there is no fixing just wrong stuff.....but there is more stuff to do, a lot more. The Chambers sets go together better than others in this class but they still need to be built.....
Basically these are a box of parts.

Jim Kibler offers a true CNC made kit. These are truly 96 percent or so complete.

The Pedersoli 2nd Model Brown Bess kit From Dixie is basically complete but needs sanding scraping assembly and finish.....
Chambers...
Kibler
Dixie Bess...
All are pretty much the same money.
Track
Petatonica River
The Two TVMs
Are a couple of hundred cheaper...but require a little more work.

Funny thing.
Chambers vs Kibler.
I am an apprentice for a gun builder.
A Chambers kit comes in.. the owner opened the box and thinks....Wow! Too much work! So they send it to us to build.

A Kibler rifle comes in for assembly....the owner opened the box and thinks....Wow! This is too nice for me to screw up! So they send it to us for assembly.

 

[54ball]

Kibler has a 1770s rifle coming soon. I have no idea on price point.

 

[bender20]

According to his website he's hoping to keep them at the same price as the current sounthern mountain rifle kit so $995 or so.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Percentage completion is all relative to where you started out, and what skills you have. If you are starting out with a shovel to dig the ore, and have to wait for a maple seed to grow you a stock, "scratch built" is truly starting out with that.

Rather than try to asses a totally subjective completion percentage, it's probably more relevant to get a handle on how many hours you have left to go to have a completed gun as you wish to have it completed. A "kit" such as you are describing for most is a 30-40 project to get a basic gun completed. If you want to add things like carving and engraving to it, you could invest several hundred more hours in just that stuff.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
If you are looking for something easy to build but of good quality, Jim Kibler's mountain rifle is the way to go. It is still more work than the Traditions kit but at least you don't have to fix the manufactures mistakes and you will actually have a quality and historically correct gun at the end. If your only experience is a Tradition's kit, a Chambers kit, which is very good, will probably take you at least 100-150 hours because you will have to learn tasks way beyond the skill level for a Tradition's kit. You will need more tools such as chisels, files, scrapers, drills, taps, etc than you needed for the Traditions kit.

dave

 

[mooman76]

Allot of the % comes from how much you intend to do to finish it. You can put as much or almost as little as you want. One guy on another board admits that when he put them together that's just about all he does excluding the finish he applies.

 

[innocent bystander]

Thanks for the replies. Guess I was thinking about this the wrong way. Right now, I've only got about 10 hours in this thing, but I still need to fix the warp in the stock, do my finish sanding and apply the stain and barrel brown. No carving on this one.

I like the Kibler rifles, but I'm a small guy (only 5'7") and the idea of a 46" barrel is pretty daunting.

 

[Black Hand]

Thanks for the replies. Guess I was thinking about this the wrong way. Right now, I've only got about 10 hours in this thing, but I still need to fix the warp in the stock, do my finish sanding and apply the stain and barrel brown. No carving on this one.

Keep in mind there may be plenty of extra wood on the stock that should be removed. They tend to make kit stocks a little on the chunky side. I'm not familiar with the style of rifle but others here may be - don't be hesitant to ask...

 

[MSW]

i agree. - the level of 'completion' is pretty much in the eye of the copy editor. (i think this is called 'puffing' in the ad business, as in to 'puff up' your product).

it's too short a life to get wrapped around the axle about this sort of thing. as we used to say in the Airborne: "It is what is is, man."

good luck with your build - let us know how it progresses and remember, we love pictures!

 

[Grenadier1758]

It may well be a 95% complete kit with respect to the parts and basic wood work.

What I have found is that last 5% needed to complete the kit takes 95% of the time and labor.