how to clean between rounds?

[Finnwolf]

You are shooting the exact same load I have shot in both .50 T/C's I have owned. I could not load a 3rd shot in either of them until I had thoroughly cleaned the barrel.

For me that meant running a patch wet with T/C#13 solvent down the bore. It will come up black with fouling because T/C's rifling is so shallow there's no place for the fouling to go. This is so that their 1:48 barrels will seal a conical bullet and shoot them fairly accurately.

Next I reverse the wet patch and run it down the bore again. It comes up with more fowling but not as much as the 1st time. Then I repeat the process with a dry patch - both sides. Now you're good for 2 more shots - takes a bit of the fun out of it, don't it?

 

[Many Klatch]

I figured that my pressure was up due to the even fowling through out the barrel. I didn't use a hammer to drive the ball in, the steel rod was heavy and strong enough that I could push it down if I grabbed it with both hands. It could have been obturated though, certainly no way to check.

Many Klatch

 

[Rafsob]

I can barely get a .490 ball down the barrel of my T/C .50 with a .015 patch. I wish I had a .485 mold.

Don't know what is up with TC but they are good for making all there ML's with very tight barrels. I mean all there barrels. That is why I will pass up a deal on a TC ML gun everytime. I got tired of putting up with this manure.

 

[Tom Compton]

Number 1 - I have not read any of the posts following your question. Too many, not enough time and not really interested.

Number 2 - Have many years experience shooting MLs in competition all over the mid South with great success. At these matches, observed and queried many of the top shooters from IL to S Texas and from AL to NM. Many have won state matches, national territorials, national aggregates and set state and national records. I have all but the national records and aggregate wins as never went to Friendship.

Number 3 - Got Dutch Schoultz's literature this year and confirmed what I knew plus some additional nuances that are being applied. An easy and worthwhile $15 investment. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com
[email protected]

Number 4 - I have not owned a factory TC barrel for about 30 years. Would apply the following cleaning method should I acquire a factory TC and am confident of the results.

Number 5 - you can use a looser ball/patch combination and not have to clean very often to get the ball down. IMO too loose a ball/patch combo is like shooting a smooth bore as there is not enough spin imparted on the projectile. Nothing wrong with shooting a smooth bore but why bother with rifling if you shoot too loose of a fit? For best accuracy, ball and compressed patch combo should be near or a little more than grove to grove diameter of the barrel. A .50 TC w/ .008 lands should be using ball and compressed patch that add up to about .516. You could drop to a patch that compresses to .013 and see if it shoots well enough for you. My .50 Douglas barrels (.013 grooves)have worked very well with .495 and .018 patch (compresses to .015). Remember a .005 change on patch material is .010 for the combination. .005 change in ball affects the combination half as much as the same .005 of patch.

NOW, how do I clean between shots? Unless hunting and a fouling shot is not a viable option, I always fire a fouling shot. Then lightly moisten a flannel cleaning patch by laying it on my tongue. One stroke down and out. No drying patch. Load and shoot. Repeat using the opposite side of the same dampened cleaning patch no additional moistening and only 2 wipes per cleaning patch. You can save the cleaning patches, rinse and reuse.

Good luck,
TC

 

[Swampman]

A tight fit is not necessary for great accuracy. The most accurate muzzleloading rifles I've ever owned were very easy to load.

 

[roundball]

Any hints or thoughts?

HINT:

Get a bottle of Hoppes No9 PLUS BP Solvent & Patch lube;

Put a bag of your Natural Lube 1000 patches into a small ziploc bag;

Squeeze a few squirts of Hoppes into the bag and squish them all around until the patches are soaked and glistening wet;

Go to the range and enjoy shooting without wiping between shots at all.

Let's me shoot 50 shot range sessions with any of my T/C and GM barreled Hawkens, any weather, year round, without wiping between shots.

 

[Old40Rod]

Dump the bore butter. Use Windex. I had similar problems using bore butter or pre-lubed bore butter patches on my GPR and 2 Cabela's Hawkens. Once I switched to a "liquid" lube, first Hoppes BP lube, then to Windex... poof... no more problems. Even spit is better than bore butter, unless you insist on a big chaw while shooting.

 

[roundball]

Actually there's nothing wrong with bore butter at all...just have to accept that when its used in dry/low humidity conditions, you have to wipe between shots because its not wet enough to keep the fouling soft so it wipes off the walls when the next PRB is seated.

However, in the spring/summer/early fall months here in NC when the humidity is up in the 80-90% range causing the pan to turn to soup in 30 seconds, you can shoot entire range sessions with bore butter patches and not have to wipe between shots...in fact, you could probably just use dry unlubed patches... :hmm: I need to try that this summer

 

[Old40Rod]

You are likely correct, it has to do with humdity. I would vote for that. The mountains of north central Idaho aren't known for high humidity. I found bore butter, whether used sparingly or liberally, or simply on prelube store bought patches, would crud up my bores within 3-4 shots to the point it was near impossible to load. This was starting from an absolutely clean (I mean clean) barrel, shooting 50 grain Goex BP FFF, on all three of my rifles.

Now, I freely admit that I never first "seasoned" my barrels with bore butter as some have recommended. Since I am doing mostly target and trail walk shooting, windex works just fine for me. So did Hoppes BP lube, I just turned to Windex when I ran out of Hoppes one time, and didn't see the point spending money on Hoppes lube when windex/409 was already handy around the house.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You can't " Season " Steel! That is something that was done when barrels were made of softer IRON, like a cast iron skillet.

That myth was promoted in the original T/C pamphlet that went out with each gun. If you followed those instructions, all you did was "COOK " bore butter into the grooves, until the grooves became complete filled, and your barrel looked like it had been " shot out". A lot of members here have made lots of money buying up these " Shot Out " guns for ridiculously low prices, then cleaning the grooves out with soap and water and a bore brush, and re-selling the " LIKE-NEW " gun again for handsome profits.

The reason to season a iron skillet is to fill the wide pores in the casting with baked grease, so that you achieve a "stick-free" surface. Most people simply buy a teflon- coated, aluminum skillet, to achieve the same thing, today.

Since steel doesn't have the open pores that cast iron does, YOU CAN'T "season" a steel barrel, or a steel skillet, for that matter!

You are correct however. Humidity definitely matters in what kind of lube will work in your gun, and how well it works. On hot, humid summer days, Wonderlube runs like water in a fired barrel. But, in our dryer winter months, when the cold saps the air of almost all moisture, we can have the same experience you get almost all year around, with the lube being too dry and solid to use without frequently cleaning it out.

Before anyone envies Roundball his shooting conditions, read again how he notes that his priming powder turns to soup in a few seconds during the humid shooting days. Each season brings its blessings, but also its problems. The same should be said for Friend, Mark Lewis, who shoots undersized RBs in thick patching down in Florida, where it seems to be ALWAYS humid and hot. As easy as he finds loading and shooting his percussion guns, I suspect he has the same problem with his priming powder in his flintlocks, that Roundball reports up in N. Carolina.

 

[Old40Rod]

You can't " Season " Steel!

Hence my quotes around the word "seasoned". I suspect that when people are doing it on a steel rifle barrel (as they claim and/or recommend), they are actually getting some effect akin to, but not exactly the same, as what occurs on "seasoning" of a cast iron skillet. While the porosity of steel may not be that of cast iron, steel's microsurface is not completely smooth, thus I suppose in theory some lube could remain trapped in the microsurface roughness and provide some lube effect. But, I could be completely wrong.

:thumbsup:

 

[bingo1952]

The reason barrels seam to settle down after a couple hundred shots is that they are not so much seasoned as they are lapped. The patch and fouling combined with 1000 fps + speeds abrade and slightly radius the sharp edges of the lands and also tend to smooth our machining imperfections on their surfaces.

 

[Chiefs50]

You can't " Season " Steel!

Hence my quotes around the word "seasoned". I suspect that when people are doing it on a steel rifle barrel (as they claim and/or recommend), they are actually getting some effect akin to, but not exactly the same, as what occurs on "seasoning" of a cast iron skillet. While the porosity of steel may not be that of cast iron, steel's microsurface is not completely smooth, thus I suppose in theory some lube could remain trapped in the microsurface roughness and provide some lube effect. But, I could be completely wrong.

:thumbsup:

I too, wouldn't totally discount the seasoning claim. At least some manufacturers of steel pots and pans included instructions on seasoning these with cooking oil before first use.

Mike

 

[richl]

As this thread had a bit more activity on it, and I was the one that started it, I wanted to report a happy ending: fired steadily for two hours, issue free, using liberal amounts of Hoppes lube. Worked great, and I wanted to thank the folks that take the time to respond to questions that seem obvious when you have been doing it a long time, or you have access to someone that can show you.
I think this is one of the best forums on the net, with a ton of helpful people, and guys that REALLY know what they are talking about.
Thanks again,
Rich

 

[Capt. Fred]

I've discovered something interesting regarding cleaning between shots. With my deHaas barrel I would get a misfire about 25% of the time after I had run a patch down and back up between shots. I tried lots of different variations but I continued to get way too many caps going off with no big bang. I know I could have snapped a cap or two every time after cleaning and before loading but that was getting on my nerves to try to remember to do that for every shot.

Then I had the idea of pouring the powder for the next shot down the barrel before I ran the cleaning patch down. Problem solved and accuracy has gotten a bit better too.

So here's my process for a five shot group.

Fire a fouling shot into the bank to get going for the day.

Pour down my charge.

Wipe the bore about 90% of the way down with a slightly damp patch.(almost dry)

Load OP wad, patch and ball.


Fire away and repeat.

The one downside I can see is that I don't get the safety advantage of wiping the bore before the charge of powder gets poured down. So I'm real careful to give it a minute or so and then keep the muzzle pointed away as I load, but I've always done that anyway.

After the fith shot I wipe the bore up and down 100% of its length a couple of times and then wipe with a dry patch.

As long as I do my part this has been keeping my first thru last shots grouping real well.

 

[Cosmoline]

You can also solve the problem of embers by blowing till all the smoke is gone--before pouring new powder of course. This simultaneously clears out any burning material and clears a path for your sparks.

I've found that cleaning between shots has the same effect on my Tryon. Esp. after about ten shots or so. What's happening is the crud drops down into the chamber and blocks the path for the spark. I tried scouring the chamber with a smaller brush but that only packed said crud in the flash hole!

I like your idea. I've also rigged up a special bent brass cleaning rod designed to fit down the tight "L" channel where the spark goes, though this requires that the nipple be removed.

Either that or switch to a flintlock where the flash hole is a straight and exposed.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Captn: I believe your problem is that you were running that first damp patch all the way down to the breechplug on the first stroke. I solved that issue by marking my rod so that I can stop it 1 inch above the plug.

Then I pull out all the crud in the barrel, and check the patch. If its not too gooey, I will flip it over and use the other side. Otherwise, if its too damp, I use a second patch and this time, dampen it by just rubbing the down side on my tongue, and now I run that patch down to the plug.

Because the rest of the barrel has already had the crud removed, the second patch can pull out the remaining crud, rather than shoving a lot of stuff into the flash channel, and causing your misfires.

The goal is to protect that flash channel, as its the " Log Jam site " for all ignition problems with a percussion gun. The second goal is to make sure all embers left after the shot is fired are extinguished. Running a damp patch down the barrel CORRECTLY gets both jobs done nicely, and protects that flash channel.

Your " New technique " is accomplishing the same thing, but you increase the risk of an accidental ignition, and you are leaving more crud in the barrel. The damp crud that is not being removed is spoiling a certain amount of that next powder charge, and it varies as the relative humidity changes during the day, and from day to day. You cannot get the best accuracy loading your gun that way. It may be good enough for plinking- almost any kind of loading technique is-- and it may not widen your usual off-hand shooting groups, because you can't shoot all that well off- hand even with an accurate gun! ( It takes lots and lots of practice- correct practice-- to get good at off-hand shooting, and when you finally get good, you have to continue to practice to stay good!)If you run this new technique over a chronograph, and compare it to better loading and cleaning methods, I think you will find it falls short of giving you good accuracy.

A cleaning jag is designed so its so much smaller than your bore, so that both the jag, and the cleaning patch slide over the tops of the lands, and only remove crud from the grooves and lands, when you pull back on the rod, and the cleaning patch blouses to fill the grooves in the jag, then fills the grooves, in a tight fit, and to physically pull the residue OUT of the barrel. Anything that is pushed ahead of the Jag as its pushed down the barrel has only one place to go, and than is into the opening of your flash channel.

 

[Capt. Fred]

I tried several different methods of sending the cleaning patch down. Even trying only going down about 1/2 way. Still the same result. I'm starting to think that maybe my cleaning patches are too thick.

If my patch is too thick is is possible that what is happening is that on the downward stroke the air trapped ahead of the patch is pushing crud into the flash channel? I'll pay closer attention next time out to listen and see if air is coming out of the nipple.

If I remembered to fire a cap after the between rounds cleaning then there was no problem at all.

I've been shooting off the bench and the accuracy has been great with this wacky method LOL. If I do my part the rounds are all grouped touching at 50yds.

 

[paulvallandigham]

More likely, your cleaning jag is too wide in diameter. That is what happened to me. I had to go back to Friendship and take my micrometer, and find a vendor who had several different sized jags to find one the right size for my .45. When I bought my .50, I anticipated the problem and bought two jags- one for loading, and one for cleaning. I later bought an extra cleaning jag just to make sure I had a spare in my range box if the first was damaged, or broken. ( Brass is brass!)

My cleaning jag is "stepped", that is, the front band is larger in diameter than the other two behind it, and each one is progressively smaller. That allows the cleaning patch to really blouse outward, and fill those grooves, while doing a good job of wiping the lands as I pull the jag and patch out the barrel.

I use 3" square cleaning patches made of 100% cotton flannel. I have tried other patches- military cleaning patches made of pocket "drill"-- but they don't work as well as the flannel patches do. The pocket drill has a tighter weave, but also a larger size thread, making the fabric thicker, and less supple to fold and dig down into those deep grooves. I am going to reserve them for use in cleaning my breechloaders, with their much shallower grooves.

 

[jfries78]

I know this thread is about cleaning between shots. But what about after the range. I Have shot inlines for 3 years now and just bought my first T/C Hawken. What are some good methods for cleaning the gun after the range and for storage