How to make perfectly round balls?

[Naphtali]

Where can a casting or swaging or other?? device be obtained to make RBs without male or female sprues -- that is, nearly perfectly round? Ball diameter I cannot identify beyond writing .69-.72-caliber.

I am less interested in the mechanics of the device as I am just achieving as close to perfectly round balls as I can make. My experience with rolling balls to minimize sprue irregularity is that irregularity remains.

This is not a hypothetical query. I do not need the device day-after-tomorrow. But I will need it within the year.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A perfectly ROUND ball does not improve accuracy, and is not needed. That sounds like heresy, but if you understand how the ball is upset on firing, and distorted a bit when loaded into a rifled barrel with a tight patch, because its made of pure lead, a perfectly round ball is just not needed for any shooting within the range and velocity limits of the Ballistics Coefficient of any round ball. ( Terrible!, BTW.)

BC means that the drag factors on a round ball cause it to lose velocity so fast, that it is easily affected by wind currents and humidity( "thick air"), and more so the further down range it goes. RB matches are generally limited to 200 yds., and under, for these reasons.

There are swaging dies available, and Forster Products in Lanark, Illinois would be the first place I would contact to see what is available.

Running cast balls in a case tumbler, or vibrator, without the cleaning grit, will round the balls in a hour or so, as much as you are likely to get them round. Swaging's main benefit, provided you use a strong enough press, is to remove, or limit the size and amount of, Air Bubbles in the lead ball, thereby providing more consistent ball weigh.

Having said all that, It sounds like you are trying to avoid having to sort balls by weight, and I don't know how you can do that. All the serious bench rest shooters sort their lead balls by weight. The Slug gun shooters sort their bullets, including 2-piece bullets, by weight, too. Even swaged balls are sorted by the serious target shooters, by weight.

Generally, if the weight is the same, and the diameter and composition of the lead ball are the same, the shape of the ball is less important for shooting small groups. :hmm: :hatsoff:

 

[Le Grand]

The only reason to have round balls with no sprues is so you can load them without concern where the sprue might be. So, cast some balls from your mould and have them ready and cooled. Then, get two steel plates about 1 foot square each. Also get a large ring, perhaps 8" in diameter across but thinner than the size of your round balls. Put 10 to 20 balls on one of the plates inside the brass ring. Then put the other plate on top and move the top plate around in a figure 8 motion. It won't take very long for all of the sprues to disappear, as long as you are using soft or pure lead for the balls.

 

[dyemaker]

I've heard of glass being used somehow. Don't know about this just read it somewhere. Seems to me that as close you can get to a perfect sphere the better. Seems logical in theory to me.

 

[Dphar]

There are no perfectly round RBs.
Casting with a GOOD mould like a Lyman then loading sprue up is the best bet. If you don't like sprues try putting 2-3 pounds of balls into a vibrating case tumbler (no media) and running it for a hour or so. This will beat the sprue down and make them look like the store bought swaged balls but rounder.
This is also very noisy.

Dan

 

[fyrfyter43]

I've tried tumbling cast balls several times. Both from Lee and Lyman moulds. Even after tumbling 2 hours, I can still see where the sprue was. There is still a raised area, but the edges are alot more rounded. The ball is more of an egg shape after tumbling.

 

[catman]

I put mine in my tumbler with-out media for 2 hours, no problems as round as I see. Spruce is still there, just not as noticeable..

 

[dyemaker]

Ball diameter I cannot identify beyond writing .69-.72-caliber.

I suppose with such a large ball, small imperfections would not matter as much. The smaller the ball is the more it matters. Doe's that make sense? Large balls get deformed slightly upon loading anyway because the larger the ball is the harder it is to load after .54 caliber or so. That's what I was told anyway.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Glass plates have been used, but we are talking heavy glass that is up to 1 inch thick, and a foot square! It has to be heavy to withstand the pressure put on it to reform the lead balls. Smooth steel plates work as well, probably cost much less, and are easier to obtain. its a lot easier to throw some lead balls in a case vibrator and turn it on for a couple of hours. Its noisy, but the garage door shots as well as opens.

 

[longcruise]

If I cast with a Lee mould and put the balls in the bottom of my case polisher for a couple hours I cannot detect the sprue. My polisher is a vibrating type with the tupperware style box on top. I put them in so that there is only one layer in the bottom and there is room for the balls to roll around. This is done without polishing media. Just the balls rolling around against each other.

If using a mould that leaves a pronounced sprue, you will have to cut them flush first.

I have no idea how this affects roundness. I do it only so that I can load without locating the sprue.

 

[Vaino]

When the PRB is traveling along the bore it's rotating w/ the rifling and is forced to spin on an "artificial" axis. When it exits the bore a "new" axis will develop because of any out of roundness, sprue weight or air pockets. In other words, the spin axis of a PRB would change if any of the previously mentioned factors are present. So out of round is only one factor of the accuracy achieved w/ a PRB. Uniform jacket thickness is of prime importance in CF bullets so the spin axis of the bore is the same as the flight axis.....Fred

 

[sniper68]

Flectho is pretty much on the money. You can mike a ball all day long, its gonna change when you start the ball in the muzzle. Gonna be swagged with the patch and bore. I don't recommend getting rid of the spurs because MOST cast balls will have voids in them, especially the ones out of a bottom pour furnace. To prove or disprove my statement, take a few of your balls and cut them open and see what ya got. When a void occurs, 99.9% of the time it will be oblong in shape and the location will be just above the horizontal center and perpendicular to the horizon. So as seen in the photo below you need to use the spur to keep the void aligned as muck as possible on the center line. If not you definatlly have a some what out of balance ball. Of course this is nit picking, but as you know it ALL adds up and is a simple thing to do. :v

 

[oldarmy]

That is "way too cool" :grin: Like my kids say..
So sprue should be up or down... however as long as it is perpendicular to the bore.. you should be OK.
there will be a little variation up or down..according to the weight of the ball.

 

[rabjr]

Where can a casting or swaging or other?? device be obtained to make RBs without male or female sprues -- that is, nearly perfectly round? Ball diameter I cannot identify beyond writing .69-.72-caliber.

I am less interested in the mechanics of the device as I am just achieving as close to perfectly round balls as I can make. My experience with rolling balls to minimize sprue irregularity is that irregularity remains.

This is not a hypothetical query. I do not need the device day-after-tomorrow. But I will need it within the year.

Why? Shot two deer with .715 balls with sprues, they didn't seem to mind much. :haha: :v

 

[cmdrted]

another thought about tumbling the balls to get rid of the sprue. All this does is kinda squash it down, where does the weight of that squashed sprue go? I think it puts an uneven weight forward, so if you can't locate where the sprue was to set it facing forward you just created an out of balance ball. That thing could resettle anywhere!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Actually, soft lead moves evenly in all directions, so you don't have an " Unbalanced" ball.

If you are concerned with RB accuracy, you always sort the balls by weight, whether cast, swaged, cast with sprue, cast with sprue removed by tumbling, or by vibrations, etc. Sorting by diameter also allows you to locate balls that may way the same, but one ( larger) has a air pocket inside of it. Mostly those with air pockets will weigh less, if they are the same diameter.

I have shot "sprue up" for years, and found I get as much accuracy with these cast balls as I CAN HOLD my sights on targets off-hand, out to 50 yards. Only when I am bench shooting, or shooting off of cross-sticks, at longer ranges can I detect a difference in unsorted lead balls. I have always wanted to put a scope sight( temporarily ) on a rifle just to see how much of the group size at 100 yds. is due to my limited ability to shoot open sights, or to the weight or distribution of weigh of cast balls.

I am convinced that most poor shooting out at distances of 100 yards or so are due to operator error, not problems with the balls used, or other factors. :hmm:

 

[jgr1974]

A friend of mine who muzzleloaded back when Friendship was started told me to put the balls in a glass cake pan, and then put it in the trunk of your car or on the floor board let the them roll around for a week or so and they will be as round as possible!

 

[misher]

Don't soft lead roundballs instantly deform as soon as they start to move up the barrel? That sudden shock in a soft material going from 0 to warp speed in a heartbeat. So much for perfectly round!

 

[Otter]

As others have at least suggested - IMHO, they start out nearly round, deform going down the barrel (to varying degrees), and definitely deform (obturate) going out the barrel. I don't really think 'perfectly round' is necessary, close is close enough.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Where can a casting or swaging or other?? device be obtained to make RBs without male or female sprues -- that is, nearly perfectly round? Ball diameter I cannot identify beyond writing .69-.72-caliber.

I am less interested in the mechanics of the device as I am just achieving as close to perfectly round balls as I can make. My experience with rolling balls to minimize sprue irregularity is that irregularity remains.

This is not a hypothetical query. I do not need the device day-after-tomorrow. But I will need it within the year.

I have two LEE Moulds...a .530 and a .535 Both of them cut the sprue FLUSH! You can see the itty bitty dido where it is/was but its smooth and not an issue