How varied was the craftsmanship on original Kentucky rifles?

[Greenman14]

Given that these were made by individual gunsmiths, were there also Kentucky rifles of crude fit and finish made, since perhaps some gunsmiths weren’t as skilled as others?

 

[Colonial Boy]

Undoubtedly and like most preserved firearms, the best were kept and the well used ones that have survived may well have been better when new.

 

[Rudyard]

Undoubtedly and like most preserved firearms, the best were kept and the well used ones that have survived may well have been better when new.

I cant say how typical but while I strive to provide patrons guns good as I can. I am less critical on ones I made for me to use my favorite's oft a I 'got up' with old barrels ,reject stocks and what I figured warranted knocking up as a challenge .Sort of" Cobblers kids are poorest shod " I put together my rifle known by some as a' New' Zealand Poor Boy' An amalgam of old & New I kept in the US For R vous they cost me little being worked up rejects others like my pet two grouve was a utterly pitted barrel but its bore was good ,A two grouve 24 bore for belted ball ten rupee lock & waister stock . & my pet 490 percussion set in an old shotgun stock pitted exterior but good out to 500 yards three deep grouved affair one in 30"pitch The sort of wilds that its been dragged through when you get to using it to find a footing in a roaring creek ( Needs must )but the fine guns are better treated If Ive been so wet on long hunts the maple stocked 5 Pounds Flint rifle warped away from the inlets the wrist all blaunched Ime trying to pop a Goat just as sodden as it was , but I got it to fire and had meat . lug a rifle though 13 days of NZ bush off track and it will soon nicely 'age ' What patrons do is up to them ..But a 40 cal Bedford caplock looks original now. ,
Rudyards ramblings

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I am not sure, but most of the originals are much better proportioned as to proper architecture. The biggest issue with guns made today is the architecture.

 

[Tumbledown]

I know it's Facebook, but the Kentucky Rifle Foundation shows a good many examples on their page.

https://www.facebook.com/kentuckyriflefoundation?mibextid=ZbWKwL

 

[ronaldrothb49]

From the books I have and the ones pictured online and the ones I have seen that never have there pictures published the quality is all over the place. There were some that were truly masters of the craft. Then there were others who clearly didn't have the ability or training and their rifles show that. I wonder how many of the ones we label as gunsmiths that came here in the 1700's would have ever been anything other than a Journeyman if they had remained in Europe under the Guilds. Some of those who came here and set up Gunsmith shops were only trained as a gun stocker so under the Guild system they would probably never have been made a master and allowed to open a shop.

 

[Tumbledown]

From the books I have and the ones pictured online and the ones I have seen that never have there pictures published the quality is all over the place.

Good news for me. I'm currently working on a kit from TOTW that someone else started. The only school this will represent is Preschool!

 

[Pete G]

Take a close look at the Kindig and Schumer books . Not all guns were top shelf . In fact, on close examination, very few were..

 

[reddogge]

I was looking at the first rifle in the photos of the Kentucky Rifle Foundation and the carving is breathtakingly beautiful but the inletting looks like it was done by a pre-schooler. I wonder if this could be caused by wood shrinkage over time or just a bad job.

 

[springfield art]

Given that these were made by individual gunsmiths, were there also Kentucky rifles of crude fit and finish made, since perhaps some gunsmiths weren’t as skilled as others?

Those Appalachian rifles could be very crude, from the 'hollers'; gunsmiths were very clever but used simple, "crude" techniques; no UPS or Dixie!! Then there's the very fine Pennsylvania rifles of the day.

 

[smoothshooter]

I am not sure, but most of the originals are much better proportioned as to proper architecture. The biggest issue with guns made today is the architecture.

Agreed.

 

[smoothshooter]

Given that these were made by individual gunsmiths, were there also Kentucky rifles of crude fit and finish made, since perhaps some gunsmiths weren’t as skilled as others?

Sometimes it would have depended on what the customer could afford.
If they just wanted a functional bare bones gun that would only see occasional use, or on the other hand, wanted a gun they knew would be abused and possibly lost or busted up, then they would have settled for ugly, but functional.
I suspect that one component almost everyone demanded was a good quality lock, and would cough up the money or goods to make that happen.
As we all know, with flintlocks, if the lock is not at least reasonably reliable, the gun is of little use.

 

[smoothshooter]

From the books I have and the ones pictured online and the ones I have seen that never have there pictures published the quality is all over the place. There were some that were truly masters of the craft. Then there were others who clearly didn't have the ability or training and their rifles show that. I wonder how many of the ones we label as gunsmiths that came here in the 1700's would have ever been anything other than a Journeyman if they had remained in Europe under the Guilds. Some of those who came here and set up Gunsmith shops were only trained as a gun stocker so under the Guild system they would probably never have been made a master and allowed to open a shop.

A lot of blacksmiths built rifles and smoothbores on occasion.
If the customer was in a big hurry they might settle for a gun with a stock that looked like it had been shaped and inletted with a hatchet and a pocket knife.

 

[tom in nc]

I have seen some old originals that the fit of the locks & parts were not good. Apparently inletting was the most difficult part of a build.

 

[ekettenburg]

Given that these were made by individual gunsmiths, were there also Kentucky rifles of crude fit and finish made, since perhaps some gunsmiths weren’t as skilled as others?

Very definitely.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Take a look through the listings of antique originals on Gunbroker, and on Gunsinternational. You will see every type of variation there is, especially during the mid-late percussion era.

Gotta remember: in the past, Blacksmith, Gunsmith, Mechanic, etc., were often all the same man. We got the really pretty guns from men who were all of those things PLUS an artist. Sometimes, like myself, the artist is nowhere to be found!

 

[Bnewberry]

As I recall, the “Feather” gun and the “Woodsrunner” that Kibler took inspiration from are not considered to be well proportioned or constructed. So varied ability among builders seems very probable.

 

[tenngun]

In the nineteenth century we see plain guns, tough and sturdy but devoid of decoration, plain Janes.
However eighteenth century 1750s to 1800 was a time of decoration on everything. Even the Brown Bess and trade guns had molding.
My Lancaster smooth rifle lacks any brass engraving and only has some scant molding, this reflects my lack of talent. I doubt that any true plain rifles were made in the eighteenth century in the style that rifles would be made fifty years later.
We see even colonial barns and costal trading ships or fisherman boats came with gingerbread, a poor houses bread box and plain pewter candle stands often came very decorated or a tin working candle lantern came with decorative percings.

 

[M. De Land]

In the nineteenth century we see plain guns, tough and sturdy but devoid of decoration, plain Janes.
However eighteenth century 1750s to 1800 was a time of decoration on everything. Even the Brown Bess and trade guns had molding.
My Lancaster smooth rifle lacks any brass engraving and only has some scant molding, this reflects my lack of talent. I doubt that any true plain rifles were made in the eighteenth century in the style that rifles would be made fifty years later.
We see even colonial barns and costal trading ships or fisherman boats came with gingerbread, a poor houses bread box and plain pewter candle stands often came very decorated or a tin working candle lantern came with decorative percings.

I've always felt the Hawkens were the epitome of muzzle loading function and architectural design, simple, good lines and well fit parts for rugged reliability and good looks. Architecture and functional profile of shape , caliber, physical size, weight fit and finish are far more important and pleasing to the eye than is glitter.
A pleasing rifle is very much like a naturally beautiful well groomed woman that needs little in the way of make up to look stunning even when they first wake up in the AM !