Gooddaytoya!
40 Cal
I I decide I want to hunt this fall, since I can't use lead balls, what are guys using instead? Kevlar patch and a ball bearing LOL ? Maybe I can experiment with shooting crossbow bolts.
Hunting in California the snti-lead state.o
- Thread starter Gooddaytoya!
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appalichian hunter
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My suggestion is leave that rat hole, and go hunt in a different state.
leadhoarder
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I seen someone else post on here to load a lead ball but carry steel or tungsten in your bag.
Woody Morgan
62 Cal.
That would be dishonest and would net someone some hefty fines.
Bismuth would be your best choice...especially if you cast.
wm
Get out of there. It's an asylum without walls.
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Some folks hunt in CA using a sabot holding a copper bullet.
Not sure if these are California approved and legal, plus pricy and usually out of stock, particularly now as we enter hunting season. You may want to check out as an option. ITX .50 cal (.487) non-toxic roundball (12 balls)-ballisticproducts.com
Woody Morgan
62 Cal.
From the link in the quote: "
| .487 is good for me... I use basically the same load I use for lead ball except I use a thicker greased patch. Traditional hunters in CA appreciate having a patched roundball option for their old slow-twist rifles!!! My Jim Chambers Isaac Haines flinter was not made to sit on the rack during hunting season... Thanks TomBob!! |
| - Ken, CA |
Bismuth from RotoMetals can be cast. Works well.
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Woody Morgan
62 Cal.
Exactly what I use. It ain't cheap but bismuth isn't for plinking either.
wm
I would want to confirm with California that whatever projectile was being used was on their approved list and any required proof was being carried. Here is a list that appears to show California approved metals manufactured by Rotometals. https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=152531&inline
I would be quite hesitant about using lead in the bore while ‘carrying’ extra non-lead balls to show wildlife officials while hunting. They could easily check the bullet wound of any game taken with a ‘lead detection kit’ for any trace of lead.
I would be quite hesitant about using lead in the bore while ‘carrying’ extra non-lead balls to show wildlife officials while hunting. They could easily check the bullet wound of any game taken with a ‘lead detection kit’ for any trace of lead.
Is a little civil disobedience dishonest, especially when protesting silly laws promoted by the people who hate us? I don't think so. Bow to our oppressors if you want to. That's your business and none of mine. At least until the California attitude comes to Alaska or Arizona.
Where can I buy a "lead detection kit"? I'd like to have one.
DOUBLEDEUCE 1
69 Cal.
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You can’t fool the gents who work for Fish and Game.
troy2000
45 Cal.
Try McMaster-Carr, under 'lead detectors.' And by the way: sneaking around trying not to get caught breaking the law isn't a 'protest.' If you're going to protest a law by breaking it, you do so in public and take your punishment like a man. Read up on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
https://www.mcmaster.com/lead-detectors/
Walmart or Home Depot has lead detection kits. Probably any hardware store.
If you can get Zink WWs that could be and idea. Lead WWS are hard to find these days and often made of zink.
ITX and Rotometals bismuth alloy are both CA approved and likely to out penetrate lead. I have to use a thinner patch for ITX and a thicker one for the Bismuth alloy since I cast it in a .480 mold vs .490 lead (haven’t tried the thicker patch yet so just used the same one I use for lead so far). But they’re all accurate out to 50 yards. I did a write up on this forum of my experience casting & shooting the bismuth alloy. I’m planning to do some water jug tests to see how well the bismuth holds up on the terminal end. I’ve also acquired some thicker patch material to see if I can get a little more accuracy out of the bismuth.
I’ve seen some online muzzleloader resources that attempt to consolidate the regulations about hunting with muzzleloaders in various states. Some of them state that projectiles have a minimum weight that is above the weight of ITX or cast bismuth. I’ve looked all over the regs and can’t find any weight requirements at all — just caliber minimums. Maybe this was an old reg that got updated, like our archery regs that now require 30# draw instead of 130-yard cast. Whatever the case, from what I can see, you’re good to go with anything you can stuff down the pipe.
Neither ITX or Bismuth are going to give you expansion. But at .50 or higher, you don’t really need it. Last year, I took a nice buck at about 60-80 yards with a conical (Thor 247 gr HP) and got 2 caliber-sized holes — no expansion from what I could tell. The shot wasn’t the best — under the spine. But the buck dropped & tumbled downhill right toward me. A follow up shot finished him at 10 yards and that one got full expansion with a recovered bullet under the far rib cage. My point in that little story is that, much like in pistol bullets, expansion is often a trade-off for penetration. And if I have to choose one, I’ll take penetration. Both ITX and bismuth have that covered.
Among the other tests, I realized that I also need to get the velocity up since round ball is likely to go transonic at about 50-60 yards. I’d like to get a solid 80 yards out of this setup if I can. We’ll see.
I’ve seen some online muzzleloader resources that attempt to consolidate the regulations about hunting with muzzleloaders in various states. Some of them state that projectiles have a minimum weight that is above the weight of ITX or cast bismuth. I’ve looked all over the regs and can’t find any weight requirements at all — just caliber minimums. Maybe this was an old reg that got updated, like our archery regs that now require 30# draw instead of 130-yard cast. Whatever the case, from what I can see, you’re good to go with anything you can stuff down the pipe.
Neither ITX or Bismuth are going to give you expansion. But at .50 or higher, you don’t really need it. Last year, I took a nice buck at about 60-80 yards with a conical (Thor 247 gr HP) and got 2 caliber-sized holes — no expansion from what I could tell. The shot wasn’t the best — under the spine. But the buck dropped & tumbled downhill right toward me. A follow up shot finished him at 10 yards and that one got full expansion with a recovered bullet under the far rib cage. My point in that little story is that, much like in pistol bullets, expansion is often a trade-off for penetration. And if I have to choose one, I’ll take penetration. Both ITX and bismuth have that covered.
Among the other tests, I realized that I also need to get the velocity up since round ball is likely to go transonic at about 50-60 yards. I’d like to get a solid 80 yards out of this setup if I can. We’ll see.
Both new and old lead shotgun shells have about disappeared here in OR. Local steel shot here in OR now runs upwards of $25 if you can find it. Local LGS says they sold all the lead stuff they had to folks down there in PRK. Even private reloads are gone as well as shot, primers, caps and powder black, or other. . Think most of it was for resale for personal defense or for use in older guns. . Sadly, given growing sentiment I think that anti lead enforcement may be very difficult, if not extremely hazardous. In third world countries enforcement personnel's of any kind (and their extended families) seem to be at risk.
Gooddaytoya!
40 Cal
I appreciate the advice to leave California but I'm stuck here by fragile finances and fear of real weather. Plus I'm a stalwart anti-lawbreaker and I'm a really bad liar and if I got stopped and questioned with a lead ball stuffed in my barrel, carrying a few bismuth balls, my body language would give me away immediately and the warden would make me pull the ball. And in California fish and game fines are stratospheric. And as the OP said the wardens are really smart from experience and they know all the tricks. Plus they are unapologetic, explaining that they never give breaks to people because the department is funded with fees and fines. And remember my rifle is 60 caliber so I doubt there are any ready-made approved projectiles for my muzzleloader. I can't buy a custom mold just to make a few bismuth balls. Maybe I really will experiment with shooting short thick arrows similar to the benneke slug made of some lighter material but I suppose those could be unapproved for muzzleloader hunts too. Hmmm.... I'm getting an idea... may the Lord help me.
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Well here the “PRK” is well on it’s way to being the Leader in the third world
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