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If Musketman comes forward and tells us he uses plastic shot cups in his smoothie, we don't hop all over him . . . Well, we might. That's pretty lame. He should be . . . No, wait. If he wants to do that we're big enough here to politely overlook it.

Would they have to be made of period correct plastic? :crackup:

I use over-powder cards, fiber wads and over-shot cards...

Any shot cups used are hand carved with a period correct knife out of 200+ year old balsa tree wood while wearing my buckskin war shirt and humming period correct tunes... :winking:
 
That's right. It;s not so much what's tucked under your arm or stuffed in it's bore that counts - as long as you didn't drive one of them father-rapin and mother-stabin ATV 4-wheeler abominations to get there. :curse:

Personally, I prefer rocklocks what are fed lead, burn charcoal and wear wood. But, I welcome anyone who ain't breakin the law, even if they're breakin my heart and using synthetic plastic dodads and powder. We'll get to 'em if given enough time.

All God's chillin got a place in the choir.

AMEN, Brother Stumpy.
I don't care for inlines as an aesthetic thing. I shoot rounballs, because where I hunt the shots are close and they work fine. For practice, and we shoot more at practice than game, PRB's are cheaper. But I really would like to hear about and discuss Pyrodex, 777, conicals, sabots and basically any sidelock HERE.

I especially appreciate the conical discussions, because I am considering switching to Maxi-hunter in my 1-48" twist T/C New Englander period correct for circa 1986 rifle.

So does anyone else have experience that would help MaxiBall?
 
.45cal 255grn TC Maxi-Hunters are tack drivers in my TC 1:48" standard barrels, both percussion and flint...I use an OxYoke wonderwad over 90grns of Goex FFg...cloverleafs at 50yds practicing from a chair like a treestand...assume it would be tighter off sandbags.
Haven't really pursued larger calibers as I have no need for big conicals...normally use roundballs in .45/.50/.54/.58, but love a .45cal and have experimented with it the most...could do a lot with a single .45cal rifle and a pair of round ball & standard twist barrels.
 
Shew wee! A great question followed by mostly non-information. I have been trying to develop a load for elk season for my T/C Hawken .54 with a 1:48. At the end of the day last range visit I felt real good about the results of shooting 90 grains of T7 behind a 435 grain maxi-hunter at 100 yards. This gleaned from info posted on the forum. It wouldn't carry 150 yards, but maybe a lighter grain would.

I'm relatively new to ML and still feel on the steep part of the learning curve, but just can't appreciate all the postings about PC. I have the gun I have for now and really dig the focus it demands for successful hunting. I'm a dedicated reader of the forum because of what I can learn about ML and all the associated traditions. But, I will pick and choose what suits me.
 
"Agree with it or disagree with it, but that's what it means here." Is pathetisad a word? it is your call Claude, but the fact remains when it comes to modern projectiles whether they are a valid topic HERE or not they are not traditional projectiles, even the manufactures of said bullets make no such claims...you may now return to your regular Wally World programing.
 
Sneakon,

It wouldn't carry 150 yards, but maybe a lighter grain would.

You might be surprised how far that 435 of 90 grains of t7 might shoot.

Here is a ballistic chart on a 50 cal 460 grain No Excuse conical - it will get there... if it gets ther I am thinking a 435 grain bullet could get there. I am not sure that he makes a .54 cal bullet but you could sheck it out.

460NEBallistics.jpg


I also have included the ballistic chart for the bullet and load I use - IF you can use sabots...

300_Nos_PP_Ballistics.jpg


The target that goes along with the ballistic report appears earlier in this string
 
tg:
You are quickly becomming one of my favorite characters.
NO, "pathetisad" is NOT a word.
I have a suggestion that might benefit all of us.
Why not try being compassionate and teach people with patience and understanding.
What exactly is your point?
This forum is not dedicated to peroid correct anything.
If a person wants to use a caplock with 1:28 twist and shoot conicals so what?
Try, if you please, teaching us what your point is.
I'll listen, might disagree, but again, so what?
I've metntioned several times that rollingb and birddog6 convinced me to try p/c flinters. I love them. I also shoot an in-line and off the shelf factory muzzle loaders, what's wrong with that?
I'm all ears. Teach us. :thumbsup:
 
"If a person wants to use a caplock with 1:28 twist and shoot conicals so what?" Well stated, I have not suggested that anyone should do other wise if that is what chokes their chicken, I simply stated that modern bullets and sights and many items used today are not "traditional" gear, I have not put anyone down for useing them but have suggested that we might take a closer look at what we define as traditional for the sake of discussion, if anything goes and if we like it then it is "traditional" then there is little point in having different "topics" if there is no difference in the scope of the subject matter coverd by them,I have not chastised or cast ill winds toward anyone useing production level guns I still have a couple and they are as traditional/PC as many of the 900 dollar semi customs that are poorly researched and misrepresented by some very popular makers,I have always manitained that among the silent majority on these forums there are many who would like a true picture of the non-modern side of this sport but are lost in the flood of BS that flows abundantly from individuals and commercial factors as well,whenever one suggests that something is NOT traditional just as a statement of opinion based on a good deal of experience and research the defensive posturing starts, I am amazed at how excited folks get if it is suggested that something they use is modern rather than traditional, in spite of the obvious and overwhelmimg results of polls and opinions of those who study the history of the old guns and gear, I would think that if it was SO important for one to call them selves "traditional" then an open eyed approach would be the ticket,but many do not care, they simply like the term...which is their choice be it accurate or not, I have grown weary of watching so many myths be perpetuated for so long, simply to avoid hurting feelings or fear of alienating someone....sometimes the truth does that, I have no desire to try and teach but would like to see more people think a bit deeper when the topic of "traditional" comes up.
 
Hey Maxi,

Brother, I'll take a stab at yer question. No one said anything about PC anything but you! TG and myself simply stated that it's a "Traditional" section and talk of powerbelt bullets and sabot bullets were never a "Traditional" item for Muzzle Loaders until the late 1900's. They might be traditional to 1980 or so!

I myself hunt with my longrifle and load from a possible bag in Gortex boots and Gortex clothing my clothing is nowhere near traditional or pc but my rifle and ammo is! That's all there is to this whole debate!

Forget about what some "Holier Than Thou" pc character has said to ya in the past! And understand we don't care what you use we are just trying to keep the posts in the right areas!

Now that I've said my piece May God Richly Bless You My Brother! Go In Peace!

Chuck
Who's not even PC at any time!
 
O.K. tg. I asked to be taught. If you're not going to teach then be slient or at least don't critcize.
If you don't want to SHARE knowledge then why are you even here?
I already said several times and at the risk of being redunant I'll say it again.
I was a strictly performance minded in-line hunter until the likes of rollingb and birddog6 TAUGHT me through patience and compassion what a p/c tradional rifle is.
Since then I've been quite taken with the p/c flinters.
I love 'em.
It has already been explained quite clearly that this "traditional hunting" section is for ANYTHING not in-line. That Claude explained quite clearly and he be the boss.
Now I'm politely asking you to please share your thoughts and knowledge. That's what these TALK, get it? TALK forums are about.
These are wonderful places to share what we have learned and to learn about what we don't know.
I shot my 1st flinter just 2 years ago and I've fooled around with black powder rifles for 30 years.
One more time.
Please teach us (me especially) what you consider traditional gear. Inquiring minds want to know.
As far as conical bullets, they have been used in muzzle loaders since at least the 1860's.
In my opinion there is traditional and there is purist.
Tradition means: habit; belief; custom; ritual; practice among other similar things.
In other words "in the spirit". Now these are subjective words, they hold slightly different meanings for different people. None of these things are wrong. Just different.
I.E. Christmass to many is a traditional religious and national holiday.
A purist may say it's incorrect to put up a plastic tree, only a fresh sawn one will do, others are quite content with a Wal-Mart plastic tree.
Who is wrong? The MEANING is still there. The "spirit" is the same.
If I hunt with an issued Thompson Hawken and Maxiball over T-7 powder am I not hunting in the traditional spirit?
Certainly it's not traditional to a purist who contends that a proper rifle MUST be a Dickert copy right down to the last pin and screw.
So I present to you an open invitation to please teach me what you consider traditional gear.
I can take it or leave it, but at least I'll know what you mean.
You say you have no desire to teach. Why are you on a talk forum then?
Please share your knowledge. Many of us want to know what you know.
Or you can cry and bellow about what isn't traditional just to hear yourself and not teach us a thing.
Your choice.
 
Once again I have not criticised only pointed out that most of todays conical bullets are not traditional projectiles, the fact the we can talk about them HERE does not change that, I have queried most of the current makers of conicals and none claim any connection with anything from the past, they are all an attempt to offer a more modern and presumably superior projectile in place of the RB, there have been non RB type projectiles since at least the mid 18th century these were often patched like a rb as they were solid. and flat on the bottom, but that does not make a Buffalo ballet or whatever other modern offering a traditional bullet,no more than an in-line is traditional because there were forms of ignition in the 18th century which COULD be described as in-line by the standards we have come to use to describe todays modern guns, nor is a Pinto wagon a traditional means of transport because there were covered wagons in the 19th century and there were Pinto horses back then also. When you start making something PC or traditional by use of a very broad and loose association much is lost in the translation, and I have quite often expressed my opinions on what is or is not PC or traditional, and it is based on research, logic, common sense......not personal preference and the need or desire to find a better, quicker, more user friendly material or method. Claude has chosen to let anything but in-lines guns be fodder for this forum which is fine but as I said before it does not alter the facts of the matter, it is interesting that you can talk of a saboted pistol bullet, scoped, plastic stocked gun, powered by pellets unless it has a modern ignition system, but that is the rule and so be it, and as far as teaching...anyone who has a genuine interest will already have learned a great deal, about traditional/ PC and gun/gear history before this post ever started. I am not getting into the "traditional spirit" thing ..way to wide of a brush and I chose the reality of the gear itself over a non tangible spirit that basicly says do what you want and call it traditional, but to each his own on how he views his experience, if I were to take any of my guns and put on a modern peep sight and load up a modern conical I would not consider it a traditional outfit, there is nothing wrong with such a rig, it's just closer to the new than the old. I try to find a reasonable definition for what fits into the traditional class of gear, and form and function as close as posssible to what things were like in the past when a choice allows is a good starting point,that which offers an advantage or supposed advantage, or brings us closer to the modern arms and accesories rather than the other direction seem to fail in meeting the mark. There is some difference of opinion as to what is or isn't but the big three are the backbone of the matter, the style gun, the sights and the projectiles. even allowing for a lot of wiggle room most of the modern offerings in the latter two don't cut it, most production sidelocks have held onto enough of the original style to past muster for most peoples taste.
 
If the definitions I have chosen are a problem, then simply disregard them. Take the posts at face value and try to have some fun. This is not science, it's a bunch of guys talking about something they enjoy. There's a time to get real strict, but this Forum is not a juried event.

The reason we allow a little leeway in the traditional hunting Forum is because I don
 
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