hunting-shooting downhill

[Dan Fangle]

I will be hunting whitetail very soon with my .50 T/C Hawken. I am going to hunt where there are some very steep hills. I'm looking for insights on trajectories and shooting downhill.

Ballistics diagrams show how much a projectile drops on a flat plane. But what about shooting at a 45 degree angle downward. What will that mean at 50 yards or 100 yards. Anybody have some rules of thumb, pointers, or a good source of info? THANK YOU

 

[rabjr]

I just make sure I'm below the the bottom 3rd of the animal almost on the brisket area on extreme angles like that.

 

[BrownBear]

I intended to do some serious uphill/downhill practice before hunting this year, but didn't get around to it. My bad. I passed up a deer steeply uphill at about 75 yards this year specifically because I didn't practice and was twitchy about exact POI. A couple of years ago I shot steeply downhill at one at a lasered 94 yards from a good rest. My longest ML shot ever. Held mid-lung on a broadside shot, and landed right over his back. Made a nervous believer out of me on the need to practice it and learn for myself. BTW- That load was 90 grains of Goex 3f under a PRB in a 54 cal GPR.

No matter what you can learn from charts and tales here on the web, at all costs I'd sure get out there and practice before your hunt, even if it meant giving up the first day of hunting for practice sessions if that's your only access to steep country.

 

[tg]

When shooting up or down hill thing of a right triangle the long leg going up is the hypotenuse it could be 100 yds the base of the triangle is the range that gravity will ballisticaly effect your ball, which will always be less than the actuall distance to the animal,so it is common to overshoot in these situations,usually if you hold on the kill zone and not try to adjust for distance by holding high. you will do OK

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu have similar " problems" shooting out of tree stands. Actually, the difference in POI is not that great. The ball will strike a bit HIGHER than if the same round were fired over the same distance on flat ground. Remember that the range is NOT going to be very long with open sights,and shooting PRBs. In steep hill country, you find lots of trees and brush obstructing your view, and the flight path of the ball. Those are greater problems than the minor change in POI on the target.

The Ball shoots a bit higher, when Shooting UP a steep incline, too, because its shooting away from Gravity, and can more easily ride the air. Downhill, the gravity actually helps the ball accelerate, maintaining its trajectory over a longer distance( within reason). A Round Ball has a HORRIBLE Ballistics Coefficient, and sheds velocity quickly going through air, no matter whether its being shot flat, down, or up.

You can generally use your gun's caliber to tell you how much velocity will be retained at 100 yds. shooting a PRB out of it. A .45 will generally retain about 45% of its Muzzle Velocity out at 100 yds; A .62 caliber will retain about 60% of its MV out at 100 yds. Shooting any Round Ball above the Speed of Sound actually will cause the ball to lose more velocity faster, with NO NET gain out at 100 yds, the faster the MV used.

On a scouting trip to the area you intend to hunt, take a cardboard box with a target already stapled to it, and place it down hill, from some point, and climb the hill to shoot at it. Fire at least 2 shots, but 3 is better. Then put that box Up slope, and fire a couple of more shots.(Make sure there is a good tree, or rock behind the box to serve as a backstop for your ball.) That will give you some better idea of whatever change in POI you can expect from you gun, with your chosen load, at those ranges. That observed change in POI will help you learn how much to hold over or under a target at those distances, on those slopes. :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

I will be hunting whitetail very soon with my .50 T/C Hawken. I am going to hunt where there are some very steep hills. I'm looking for insights on trajectories and shooting downhill.

Ballistics diagrams show how much a projectile drops on a flat plane. But what about shooting at a 45 degree angle downward. What will that mean at 50 yards or 100 yards. Anybody have some rules of thumb, pointers, or a good source of info? THANK YOU

A round ball trajectory is not going to change much. If are loading for 1850fps and you sight the gun 2.5" high at 65 yards it will be within 2.5" of line of sight to about 120 yards. This is not going to be enough to cause concern because of the angle. If shooting up hill remember the ball will exit higher if shooting at a 45 degree angle.
If shooting down hill it will exit much lower. Imagine the location of the internal organs you want to damage and hold for a spot on the animal that will put the ball at that point inside the deer.

Steep (45 degree) uphill shot hold a little low on the chest 2-3" up from the brisket to get the arteries or heart.
Steep down hill hold a little high. Mid point maybe. Shoot too low hear and you can have a wounded animal shot through the brisket.

Dan

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hold "a tad" low shooting uphill or downhill at steep angles. It's not just the trajectory but also our tendancy not to hold the rifle (or bow) properly and bend only at the waist. We tend to give more from the recoil. By "a tad" I mean an inch or so, not a significant amount. If you are out at 100 yards shooting down a 65º angle then, sure, it will be a much more significant amount . . . maybe three inches.

Imagine an apple right in the center of a deer's lungs and aim so your ball passes through the bottom of it. At at any realistic angle or distance for a round ball you'll be draggin them out shortly thereafter.

Worst disservice McKenzie ever did the world of hunting was draw the vitals on the outside of a 3-D deer target; so hunters forgot to aim for what's inside and not what's drawn on the outside. Useless at any angled shots.

 

[rabjr]

Right, I've never had a problem shooting within 100 yards, usually well within it.

I think the problems really start when you start to shoot at animals well over 100 yards with steep angles.

 

[ohio ramrod]

If you are bench shooting you might notice the effects of "up hill/ down hill". But for off hand shooting you are far more likely to overcompensate than get it right. The "down hill" effect is significant if you are bow hunting from a tree stand. Since arrows are more effectd than rifle balls due to the difference in velocities and the fact from a treestand you are shooting straight down. Most "down hill" shots are less than 25 degrees down and gravity pulls toward the center of the earth which is the way you shoot down from a treestand.

 

[Flintlock58]

A few years back a shooting instructor told me to hold a little low when shooting up or down hill at game within the optimal range for your load, rifle and skill. So as others have said a little practice should go a long way increasing your skill and confidence. that advise has helped me anyway. Good luck!

 

[Walks with fire]

Yep; both uphill and downhill aim lower. How much? Depends on your range and mid-range trajectory.

 

[Deadeye]

Did someone say that Phariss will set us straight?
It's the SAME uphill or downhill, gravity doesn't change. The impact will be higher in either case.
Deadeye

 

[Dan Fangle]

Thank you all for your advice and input. I will consider all of it. Especially the practice part.
I sight-in/practice at a flat range. Practice downhill would be a great idea.

It rained the night before, and has been unseasonably warm- those are just some of my EXCUSES for not even seeing a deer. But I will take your advice with me, and use it to bring a whitetail to it's rightful place on my dinner plate

 

[marwat06]

Remember High School Geometry? The Pythagorean Theorem? Run some numbers and see how different scenarios works out. (It'll make your High School Math Teacher happy :grin: ) When I started hunting from Treestands I got hung up on different aimpoints and trajectories ..yadda, yadda, yadda. Being 30 feet in a tree and shooting out to 100 yards has no measurable impact on bullet drop vs. being on the ground. The distance difference the bullet travels is under one yard for Treestand vs. Ground.

 

[Okurok]

I think Phariss is right. You are more liable to overcompesate by holding too far low. If you are shooting sharply downhill the bullet needs to enter high to angle down into the vitals. You wouldn't need to compesate more than a few inches for difference in drop but you probably will need to comp for the angle that the bullet will travel thru the target.

 

[Okurok]

Downhill, the gravity actually helps the ball accelerate, maintaining its trajectory over a longer distance( within reason).

If you shot straight down the ball wouldn't accelerate. Gravity pulls the bullet straight down which would allow it to keep a straight path but it doesn't make the bullet go faster. The way I understand within a very short distance of the muzzle (inches)the bullet begins to slow down due to air resistance. Too small a powder charge for the length of barrel and it starts to slow in the barrel.

 

[rabjr]

I think Phariss is right. You are more liable to overcompesate by holding too far low. If you are shooting sharply downhill the bullet needs to enter high to angle down into the vitals. You wouldn't need to compesate more than a few inches for difference in drop but you probably will need to comp for the angle that the bullet will travel thru the target.

First of all, it amazes me when I see people talking about 100, 120 yards. If you can see and shoot accuratly at those distances, thats great and the above applys. I can't without a scope, or should I say I can but I don't trust myself anymore to make that shot. Most of my shots are within 35, 40 yards and rarely out to 75 yards. So my method of holding just under the top of the lower 3rd works just find for me. You won't see me shooting at a deer at 120 yards and a 45 degree angle with open sites.

 

[Bean]

as stated the pathagoriam theory is correct. The drop is generated by the distance over the gravitational force not the straight line to the target. You have to calculate via the SWAG method to estimate the distance if you raise or lower the target to your same elevation.
SWAG = sophisticated wild *## guess

 

[rabjr]

as stated the pathagoriam theory is correct. The drop is generated by the distance over the gravitational force not the straight line to the target. You have to calculate via the SWAG method to estimate the distance if you raise or lower the target to your same elevation.
SWAG = sophisticated wild *## guess

:thumbsup:

 

[redwing]

Hunting in the west across sage brush prairies on a bright clear day its easy to misjudge range. The target is more often farther than you think. Shooting a M/L at 100 yds. is common. That being said, with prmitve iron sights it is next to impossible to judge a 2" sight correction at that distance. I doubt the concern over holding off for elevation change. :shake: