I figured I would post this here just to give a heads up to forum members

[PowderSchooner]

Recently I've made two posts about buying my first flintlock rifle from a local seller. Last week the seller fell ill and passed away yesterday. His son wanted me to look over the rifles and see if I still wanted to buy one. Yesterday I and @SmoothboreMurph looked over the rifles but the seller hiked the prices of the 3 rifles I was interested in up. Today I asked a local gun store owner who @SmoothboreMurph recommended due to his experience with Muzzleloaders (He has been in the Muzzleloading business since 1982) to come and take a look at these rifles with the seller's permission. While I was at work I received a message from another user who is a friend of Mike Roby and has his rifles for sale on Gunbroker. I noticed that all the information I was given about these 3 for sale rifles was the exact same as this user's Gunbroker posts. (That information can be found in my latest post in the Flintlock Rifles subforum). Upon arriving at the seller's residence the gun store owner looked over each rifle and determined they were not works of Mike Roby and rather that they were kit rifles from the late 1980s to early 1990s or were custom works made by a builder or by a commercial gunsmith. The .50 cal "Mike Roby engraved" Lancaster rifle was said to have a Getz barrel but actually was a Douglas and there were no markings left by Mike Roby anywhere on the rifle. The .40 and .45 were both kit rifles as well. The seller wanted $5,000 for his "Mike Roby" .50, $3,300 for his "Mike Roby" .40 and $3,700 for his "Mike Roby" .45 rifle. He is aware of this forum and Gunbroker and has plans to sell his rifles on both platforms. He is using @AZ Muzzleloaders gunbroker information for his rifles which these measurements to not match his rifles at all. I figured I would let all forum users know in case he does advertise them here. He is using someone else's information and property to sell his own for inflated prices. Another note is that he said the rifles all were capable of firing however the .50 cal rifle doesn't have a working lock. I don't want to slander anyone but I was almost fooled into spending money on nothing short of a pipe rifle and I don't want anyone else to be fooled either. I don't think it is ethical to steal someone's information to make a profit or make false claims about a rifle and take someone's money from them and in return give them scrap.

 

[2 shots]

amen friend. thanks for the heads up. may save a member some grief.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Recently I've made two posts about buying my first flintlock rifle from a local seller. Last week the seller fell ill and passed away yesterday. His son wanted me to look over the rifles and see if I still wanted to buy one. Yesterday I and @SmoothboreMurph looked over the rifles but the seller hiked the prices of the 3 rifles I was interested in up. Today I asked a local gun store owner who @SmoothboreMurph recommended due to his experience with Muzzleloaders (He has been in the Muzzleloading business since 1982) to come and take a look at these rifles with the seller's permission. While I was at work I received a message from another user who is a friend of Mike Roby and has his rifles for sale on Gunbroker. I noticed that all the information I was given about these 3 for sale rifles was the exact same as this user's Gunbroker posts. (That information can be found in my latest post in the Flintlock Rifles subforum). Upon arriving at the seller's residence the gun store owner looked over each rifle and determined they were not works of Mike Roby and rather that they were kit rifles from the late 1980s to early 1990s or were custom works made by a builder or by a commercial gunsmith. The .50 cal "Mike Roby engraved" Lancaster rifle was said to have a Getz barrel but actually was a Douglas and there were no markings left by Mike Roby anywhere on the rifle. The .40 and .45 were both kit rifles as well. The seller wanted $5,000 for his "Mike Roby" .50, $3,300 for his "Mike Roby" .40 and $3,700 for his "Mike Roby" .45 rifle. He is aware of this forum and Gunbroker and has plans to sell his rifles on both platforms. He is using @AZ Muzzleloaders gunbroker information for his rifles which these measurements to not match his rifles at all. I figured I would let all forum users know in case he does advertise them here. He is using someone else's information and property to sell his own for inflated prices. Another note is that he said the rifles all were capable of firing however the .50 cal rifle doesn't have a working lock. I don't want to slander anyone but I was almost fooled into spending money on nothing short of a pipe rifle and I don't want anyone else to be fooled either. I don't think it is ethical to steal someone's information to make a profit or make false claims about a rifle and take someone's money from them and in return give them scrap.

Back in November of 2021 I look at his .50 Caliber Lancaster rifle (him being the seller). I lost interest because of the price ( at that point was $2,700). However when I look at the rifles again with @PowderSchooner I realised right away that something wasn't right. I also have seen @AZ Muzzleloaders Gunbroker posts and when @PowderSchooner posted yesterday I immediately realised that the information was the exact same as his posts. It is definitely good to give a heads-up to everyone so that members are made aware. This seller also claimed that a Muzzleloader specialist in Denton, Maryland said that his rifles were worth x amount of money. The name he gave for this specialist is actually my Muzzleloader dealer's son in law. His son in law never has laid eyes on these rifles nor has ever spoken to the seller. This amount of fraudulent behavior is intolerable in my books.

 

[PowderSchooner]

amen friend. thanks for the heads up. may save a member some grief.

This was the first time I was going to buy a muzzleloader rifle in person and had it not been for the backup I brought with me I would've bought an overpriced mantle ornament. All rifles have a value but that doesn't mean someone should steal another rifles value and claim it as theirs or falsely claim that they function properly when they clearly don't.

 

[AZ Muzzleloaders]

Just to be clear, I've had a couple of messages with PowderSchooner over this situation. It seems the other seller is using data and information from some of my listings as his own. I've sold to many members here on this forum, Americanlongrifles.org and on gunbroker as AZ Muzzleloaders without incident. Many happy customers and no returns or complaints. I strive to make my listings accurate and I'm completely forthcoming with any requests and contact info. If you have any questions about my listings or Mike Roby's, feel free to send me a PM and we'll discuss.
Dave

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Just to be clear, I've had a couple of messages with PowderSchooner over this situation. It seems the other seller is using data and information from some of my listings as his own. I've sold to many members here on this forum, Americanlongrifles.org and on gunbroker as AZ Muzzleloaders without incident. Many happy customers and no returns or complaints. I strive to make my listings accurate and I'm completely forthcoming with any requests and contact info. If you have any questions about my listings or Mike Roby's, feel free to send me a PM and we'll discuss.
Dave

Well said

 

[Dude]

I find this a little confusing and difficult to track with.

Who was the deceased Muzzleloader member?

Let's see if I've got this all straight:

The deceased owner's son is selling the guns. He copied AZ Muzzleloader's Gunbroker ads claiming that's what he has for sale, which isn't the case at all. He's pretending to have expensive rifles to sell when in fact they're nothing but old kit guns from the 80s, and one doesn't even function.

What is this yahoo's name? How will we recognize him? Location?

 

[kh54]

I don't think it is ethical to steal someone's information to make a profit or make false claims about a rifle and take someone's money from them and in return give them scrap.

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. To me this creature’s behavior (he doesn’t deserve to be called a man) is way south of unethical. Anyone who is so comfortable attempting to defraud others will undoubtedly cross the line into criminal, prosecutable offenses as well. We can only hope that he will not get away with it. I vote for removal of certain key body parts.

BTW, thanks for the warning.

 

[PowderSchooner]

I find this a little confusing and difficult to track with.

Who was the deceased Muzzleloader member?

Let's see if I've got this all straight:

The deceased owner's son is selling the guns. He copied AZ Muzzleloader's Gunbroker ads claiming that's what he has for sale, which isn't the case at all. He's pretending to have expensive rifles to sell when in fact they're nothing but old kit guns from the 80s, and one doesn't even function.

What is this yahoo's name? How will we recognize him? Location?

I dont think he is a member on the forum yet, but he said he will plan to sell on this forum as well as gunbroker. He is located here in Maryland specifically Easton, Maryland. His father who was the original seller passed away and I do not believe he was a member on this forum either. I just out this out there to make people aware of this seller in case he does appear on this forum. His name is Michael Longford btw incase anyone sees his ads and PM's him if he ever has the gaul to post his rifles here. I the rifles are a Southern Mountain Rifle .40 and .45 and a Lancaster style .50. They will be easily identified as he will probably falsely advertise them as works of "Mike Roby".

 

[Dude]

I vote for removal of certain key body parts.

Yep - out and out criminal. No doubt about it! He's already lost his mind, let's figure out how we can block him joining the club.

Thanks for the heads up Powder.

 

[Capnball]

Recently I've made two posts about buying my first flintlock rifle from a local seller. Last week the seller fell ill and passed away yesterday. His son wanted me to look over the rifles and see if I still wanted to buy one. Yesterday I and @SmoothboreMurph looked over the rifles but the seller hiked the prices of the 3 rifles I was interested in up. Today I asked a local gun store owner who @SmoothboreMurph recommended due to his experience with Muzzleloaders (He has been in the Muzzleloading business since 1982) to come and take a look at these rifles with the seller's permission. While I was at work I received a message from another user who is a friend of Mike Roby and has his rifles for sale on Gunbroker. I noticed that all the information I was given about these 3 for sale rifles was the exact same as this user's Gunbroker posts. (That information can be found in my latest post in the Flintlock Rifles subforum). Upon arriving at the seller's residence the gun store owner looked over each rifle and determined they were not works of Mike Roby and rather that they were kit rifles from the late 1980s to early 1990s or were custom works made by a builder or by a commercial gunsmith. The .50 cal "Mike Roby engraved" Lancaster rifle was said to have a Getz barrel but actually was a Douglas and there were no markings left by Mike Roby anywhere on the rifle. The .40 and .45 were both kit rifles as well. The seller wanted $5,000 for his "Mike Roby" .50, $3,300 for his "Mike Roby" .40 and $3,700 for his "Mike Roby" .45 rifle. He is aware of this forum and Gunbroker and has plans to sell his rifles on both platforms. He is using @AZ Muzzleloaders gunbroker information for his rifles which these measurements to not match his rifles at all. I figured I would let all forum users know in case he does advertise them here. He is using someone else's information and property to sell his own for inflated prices. Another note is that he said the rifles all were capable of firing however the .50 cal rifle doesn't have a working lock. I don't want to slander anyone but I was almost fooled into spending money on nothing short of a pipe rifle and I don't want anyone else to be fooled either. I don't think it is ethical to steal someone's information to make a profit or make false claims about a rifle and take someone's money from them and in return give them scrap.

Wow, that's too bad there are people out there like that.
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dude]

Wow, that's too bad there are people out there like that.
Thanks for the heads up.

Kinda boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

[PowderSchooner]

I’m sorry but I have to disagree. To me this creature’s behavior (he doesn’t deserve to be called a man) is way south of unethical. Anyone who is so comfortable attempting to defraud others will undoubtedly cross the line into criminal, prosecutable offenses as well. We can only hope that he will not get away with it. I vote for removal of certain key body parts.

BTW, thanks for the warning.

Yea his father had been trying to sell his rifles since 2021 and SmoothboreMurph had even look at them a few times but never bought one. I and the older gentleman settled on $1,350 for his .50 cal as we negotiated down from $1,800. He really wanted to see them gone and off to someone who had use for them. After he passed his son threw out I and his father's agreement and demanded $5,000 for the rifle and falsely claimed he had it appraised. (No documentation of course). He then wanted $3,300 and $3,700 for the other two rifles. It is one thing to value your rifles high but when you steal someone's information and then claim that you had someone appraise your rifles when they didn't which could ruin their career or business value and reputation. That is when there has been a line crossed.

 

[sturmkatze]

Time to move on. For a gun to be worth that much, it better fit me, dead on, and make me gasp at its beauty. Oh, and it better shot dead on balls accurate (to quote a movie).

 

[azmntman]

So how is AZ Muzzeloaders involved?

 

[maillemaker]

I am confused here.

Are you saying that they are selling rifles with false descriptions/pictures?

 

[PowderSchooner]

So how is AZ Muzzeloaders involved?

The seller is using AZ Muzzeloaders' information, from AZ Muzzelloaders' ads on gunbroker, I mean. He is claiming his rifles are the exact same as the rifles AZ Muzzleloaders has for sale and claiming that they have been engraved by a friend of AZ Muzzleloaders named Mike Roby. They are not and he is just taking all the measurements and weight information from the gunbroker ads to add to his false claims. In short using someone else's rifle information to falsely claim his are the same. The seller even went as far as falsely claiming to have had then appraised by a local gunsmith in Denton, MD. When talking to this gunsmith he said he has never seen the rifles nor has he talked to the seller. Bottom line he is taking the information from AZ Muzzleloaders and using it for his own benefit and trying to con someone into buying an overpriced non working muzzleloader or two of his other pieced together kit rifles.

 

[azmntman]

Thats good to clarify, maybe I just skimmed thru too fast but I was lead to believe that AZ was a collaborator, appears he is a/the victim?

 

[PowderSchooner]

I am confused here.

Are you saying that they are selling rifles with false descriptions/pictures?

Yes, he is taking AZ Muzzleloaders gunbroker descriptions and using them to try and sell his rifles, he has falsely claimed a friend of AZ Muzzleloaders named Mike Roby engraved his rifles, one of the Muzzleloaders doesn't have a functional lock and he has falsely claimed to have had them appraised by a local gunsmith. Upon reaching out to the gunsmith he told me he has never laid eyes on these rifles nor has he spoken to the seller ever. He is lying through his teeth trying to con someone into buying his rifles and he almost got me. Upon seeing them in person the pictures he sent me were out of date because the rifles were rusty and in poor shape. He tried to con me since I was a first time buyer so I figured I would give a warning to the whole forum as he has stated he intends to try to sell them here or on gunbroker.

 

[deerstalkert]

the seller just by utilizing AZ Muzzleloaders information, and claiming FALSELY that they are in fact Mike Roby guns has stepped over the line into a criminal act. Fraud. avoid like the plaque!