I figured I would post this here just to give a heads up to forum members

[PowderSchooner]

Thats good to clarify, maybe I just skimmed thru too fast but I was lead to believe that AZ was a collaborator, appears he is a/the victim?

Yes this seller is claiming to have the exact same rifles as AZ Muzzleloaders more or less. I let AZ Muzzleloaders know already. I figured I would let other members know so they don't buy his rifle as they are in poor condition and one doesn't have a functioning lock. I almost got conned into buying on of his rifles and I'd hate to see him do it to someone else.

 

[PowderSchooner]

the seller just by utilizing AZ Muzzleloaders information, and claiming FALSELY that they are in fact Mike Roby guns has stepped over the line into a criminal act. Fraud. avoid like the plaque!

He also falsely claimed a gunsmith in Denton appraised his rifles. That Gunsmith is the son in law to the gunsmith I and SmoothboreMurph had on hand when I looked at the rifles in person. We talked to the gunsmith in Denton last night and he said he has never seen the rifles nor has he ever spoken with the seller about them. So he is falsely claiming AZ Muzzleloaders information and he is falsely claiming their appraised value.

 

[deerstalkert]

legally the claim of value is nebulous. he can claim any value he wants. the Fraud occurs when he attributes it to a "expert appraisal" . without a certified copy of the appraisal, the claim is null. Toilet paper!
the fraud is representing them with AZ's information and the claim of being built by Roby.
even as such without getting the claims in a signed deposition from him it would be hard to prosecute. just shows his nature for all to see.

 

[maillemaker]

I feel like all the talk about Mike Roby, AZ Muzzleloaders, SmoothboreMurph, gunsmiths in Denton, and people who got sick and died just confuses the issue here.

The bottom line is you are aware of a seller who is misrepresenting their firearms.

If you are trying to provide information for people to watch out for the only information people need to know is who is the seller and what are they selling.

 

[SmokepoleSam]

His name is mentioned in post #9 and the guns have been described a few times, please read the entire post.

 

[maillemaker]

His name is mentioned in post #9 and the guns have been described a few times, please read the entire post.

Thanks for digging out the nugget of information from the wall of Who's On First.

 

[Whughett]

Yea his father had been trying to sell his rifles since 2021 and SmoothboreMurph had even look at them a few times but never bought one. I and the older gentleman settled on $1,350 for his .50 cal as we negotiated down from $1,800. He really wanted to see them gone and off to someone who had use for them. After he passed his son threw out I and his father's agreement and demanded $5,000 for the rifle and falsely claimed he had it appraised. (No documentation of course). He then wanted $3,300 and $3,700 for the other two rifles. It is one thing to value your rifles high but when you steal someone's information and then claim that you had someone appraise your rifles when they didn't which could ruin their career or business value and reputation. That is when there has been a line crossed.

So, his knowing, I assume, the you and his father had an agreement to buy a rifle and then not honoring that agreement does not speak well of the man’s respect for his father.
Greed has a way of bringing out one’s true nature.

 

[Coinneach]

Time to move on. For a gun to be worth that much, it better fit me, dead on, and make me gasp at its beauty. Oh, and it better shot dead on balls accurate (to quote a movie).

And include a Flathead Tribe Winter Woman who can cook and repair Moccasins and make a fine brain tanned leather war shirt with acceptable quill work......

 

[Carney Pace]

I do not usually get involved in this type of stuff---I am a friend of both Mike Roby and Dave. I have purchased from both of them and will stand behind there reputations, Hell I will stand in front of there reputations!
Thanks for the heads up and warning.

Carney

 

[Andrewmtnman]

Good information for all to know. Thanks for sharing. For anyone thinking of buying from @AZ Muzzleloaders, I just did and had a GREAT experience all around.

 

[nit wit]

Contact Gun Broker!
Nit Wit

 

[cebusey]

I dont think he is a member on the forum yet, but he said he will plan to sell on this forum as well as gunbroker. He is located here in Maryland specifically Easton, Maryland. His father who was the original seller passed away and I do not believe he was a member on this forum either. I just out this out there to make people aware of this seller in case he does appear on this forum. His name is Michael Longford btw incase anyone sees his ads and PM's him if he ever has the gaul to post his rifles here. I the rifles are a Southern Mountain Rifle .40 and .45 and a Lancaster style .50. They will be easily identified as he will probably falsely advertise them as works of "Mike Roby".

Thanks - I am from Easton MD and will keep an eye out - the name sounds familiar and may have crossed swords with him before

 

[AZ Muzzleloaders]

I do not usually get involved in this type of stuff---I am a friend of both Mike Roby and Dave. I have purchased from both of them and will stand behind there reputations, Hell I will stand in front of there reputations!
Thanks for the heads up and warning.

Carney

Carney has seen me shoot. Standing in front of me may be the safest place!

 

[Ed Pilkington]

“The heart is deceitfully wicked and beyond cure…who can know it?”

 

[deerstalkert]

And include a Flathead Tribe Winter Woman who can cook and repair Moccasins and make a fine brain tanned leather war shirt with acceptable quill work......

talking to the Chief of the Oglala Sioux one day. he told me his grandfather said that on raids the Sioux would take horses, dogs, and plunder from the Flathead but leave the women.
probably why i married a Scots woman and not a Flathead!

 

[Hiwallhunter]

I dont think he is a member on the forum yet, but he said he will plan to sell on this forum as well as gunbroker. He is located here in Maryland specifically Easton, Maryland. His father who was the original seller passed away and I do not believe he was a member on this forum either. I just out this out there to make people aware of this seller in case he does appear on this forum. His name is Michael Longford btw incase anyone sees his ads and PM's him if he ever has the gaul to post his rifles here. I the rifles are a Southern Mountain Rifle .40 and .45 and a Lancaster style .50. They will be easily identified as he will probably falsely advertise them as works of "Mike Roby".

Where I am from that qualifies as “False Pretences” in plain language communicating with intent to deceive. Email scams and the like are other examples. Sounds like the local constabulary and possibly the FBI might be interested in this. This is a criminal offence wherever you hang your hat!

 

[Rifleman1776]

You were right to have these checked out for your own protection before buying them. However, to criticize what a seller might do is not your right. You have stepped over the line. I believe this entire thread should be deleted.

 

[Dude]

...to criticize what a seller might do is not your right.

When someone tells you his intentions, and they're not ethical, why would it NOT be ok to warn your friends? If someone told you he intended to shoot the president, would you keep that to yourself? Well, ok, maybe you would (LOL), but you get my meaning.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Dang, and I build mine for less than a grand. Sure glad we dont buy other peoples rifles.

 

[springfield art]

Recently I've made two posts about buying my first flintlock rifle from a local seller. Last week the seller fell ill and passed away yesterday. His son wanted me to look over the rifles and see if I still wanted to buy one. Yesterday I and @SmoothboreMurph looked over the rifles but the seller hiked the prices of the 3 rifles I was interested in up. Today I asked a local gun store owner who @SmoothboreMurph recommended due to his experience with Muzzleloaders (He has been in the Muzzleloading business since 1982) to come and take a look at these rifles with the seller's permission. While I was at work I received a message from another user who is a friend of Mike Roby and has his rifles for sale on Gunbroker. I noticed that all the information I was given about these 3 for sale rifles was the exact same as this user's Gunbroker posts. (That information can be found in my latest post in the Flintlock Rifles subforum). Upon arriving at the seller's residence the gun store owner looked over each rifle and determined they were not works of Mike Roby and rather that they were kit rifles from the late 1980s to early 1990s or were custom works made by a builder or by a commercial gunsmith. The .50 cal "Mike Roby engraved" Lancaster rifle was said to have a Getz barrel but actually was a Douglas and there were no markings left by Mike Roby anywhere on the rifle. The .40 and .45 were both kit rifles as well. The seller wanted $5,000 for his "Mike Roby" .50, $3,300 for his "Mike Roby" .40 and $3,700 for his "Mike Roby" .45 rifle. He is aware of this forum and Gunbroker and has plans to sell his rifles on both platforms. He is using @AZ Muzzleloaders gunbroker information for his rifles which these measurements to not match his rifles at all. I figured I would let all forum users know in case he does advertise them here. He is using someone else's information and property to sell his own for inflated prices. Another note is that he said the rifles all were capable of firing however the .50 cal rifle doesn't have a working lock. I don't want to slander anyone but I was almost fooled into spending money on nothing short of a pipe rifle and I don't want anyone else to be fooled either. I don't think it is ethical to steal someone's information to make a profit or make false claims about a rifle and take someone's money from them and in return give them scrap.

You've done a great service; do your research, folks.