I finally own a Whitworth

[TFoley]

Thanks mate. I live in Queensland Australia. The L.E.M. seems the pick of the litter so far, though it seems like it would be slow.

I've got one here in front of me right this minute. The bullet that comes with it was made in the mould. It needs resizing for my early P-H Whitworth - the nose goes in, but the base does not. Looks nice though. hold on, I'll take a pic for ya.

This was shot at 200m with my other P-H Whitworth #888 -

This was the bullet -

A 600gr flat-base over 80gr of 3Fg and cardboard wad. Sadly, the Polisars no longer make these bullets, nor even the 500gr versions

 

[Davey Boy]

What country are you in? That will help us to help you and/or offer meaningful/useless advice. I see from your spelling of 'mould' that you might just be in UK.

NOE in the US make moulds for around the $200 mark.

Up in Manitoba KAL does much the same for much the same price.

In Germany, Hensel make a beautiful hexagonal mould for mucho dinero.

In UK L.E.M - aka Glenn McGuire, will make anything you want for a not unreasonable price.

And to sum up, although the bore was nominally .451", in practice they can be anything but, as you've just found.

I understand U.S. and UK

The rest may as well be cipher

 

[Whitworth]

Thanks for the tip jimairwin. I have about 500 pounds of linotype but no pure tin to add. I will try adding a bit of linotype to pure lead, just enough to get a well filled out bullet but still be soft.
Widow's Son the threads are 10/32.

 

[Davey Boy]

So you Make a round cylindrical bullet, then drive it down the barrel and it come out twisted?

 

[Widows Son]

I've got one here in front of me right this minute. The bullet that comes with it was made in the mould. It needs resizing for my early P-H Whitworth - the nose goes in, but the base does not. Looks nice though. hold on, I'll take a pic for ya.
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This was shot at 200m with my other P-H Whitworth #888 -

View attachment 86201
This was the bullet -
View attachment 86202
A 600gr flat-base over 80gr of 3Fg and cardboard wad. Sadly, the Polisars no longer make these bullets, nor even the 500gr versions

He has a slick sided .441 hollow base available that I’m considering. Of course I’d have to learn how to paper patch.

What is that awl-looking tool for? I’ve only ever used Lee type moulds

 

[Widows Son]

Thanks for the tip jimairwin. I have about 500 pounds of linotype but no pure tin to add. I will try adding a bit of linotype to pure lead, just enough to get a well filled out bullet but still be soft.
Widow's Son the threads are 10/32.

Thank you. 10/32 is the ramrod thread I’m guessing? And where would the ramrod accessories be sold? (Bore brush, mop, ball puller) as they would be female threaded (I don’t remember ever seeing such)

 

[ResearchPress]

So you Make a round cylindrical bullet, then drive it down the barrel and it come out twisted?

No 'driving' necessary. It should be a snug slip fit, with no exertion required to load the cylindrical (or hexagonal) bullet. On firing, the cyclindrical bullet will 'bump up' to fit the hexagonal bore.

David

 

[TFoley]

He has a slick sided .441 hollow base available that I’m considering. Of course I’d have to learn how to paper patch. What is that awl-looking tool for? I’ve only ever used Lee type moulds

It's used to push the bullet out of the mould from the top - the lower section is a very close fit to the main body of the mould. I will be holding it in a bench vise on my Workman stand, with casting gear on the rest of it close to hand.

 

[TFoley]

Thank you. 10/32 is the ramrod thread I’m guessing? And where would the ramrod accessories be sold? (Bore brush, mop, ball puller) as they would be female threaded (I don’t remember ever seeing such)

If Heelerau, another Australian, takes looks in here, he'll probably be able to advise you on a supplier in your country. I get my cleaning necessities from Peter Dyson here in UK. He also makes a correct-style rod for both original and Parker-Hale Whitworth-style rifles. 10/32 is 5/16th, BTW. He ships world-wide, or rather, he will, when his company recovers from the Covid thing. Peter Jn and snr and Wendy have been out of action since the first week in July, having pinged the covid bell in spite of all having both jabs. So right now he is out of action, he tells me. His workshop staff didn't come back to work until yesterday...

 

[TFoley]

I understand U.S. and UK

The rest may as well be cipher

NOE is the name of the American mould maker.

KAL is the name of the Canadian mould maker.

Google them to see more.

 

[TFoley]

So you Make a round cylindrical bullet, then drive it down the barrel and it come out twisted?

As noted by Mr Minshall - the Lyman 534gr cylindrical bullet recovered -

 

[Davey Boy]

The recovered bullet shape is amazing.

I very much like these posts concerning the Whitworth

Just terrific

 

[Widows Son]

You gentlemen are gracious with your advice.
Hopefully I’ll be able to get to the range middle of next week to begin learning how to use it. I’ll just have to begin with the shooting supplies that came with it and the iron sights.

At what distance should a Whitworth be sighted-in?

 

[user 31296]

Hi mate one fantastic rifle you have there. All the best in getting tight groups. Cheers from NSW

 

[gvandersluis]

I am concerned, I remove the “clean out” screw each time I clean my TC Seneca and patriot and really want some hard info as to whether I should or shouldn’t do this. Can anyone point to some authorities information or a link
Gary

 

[Dude]

I am concerned, I remove the “clean out” screw each time I clean my TC Seneca and patriot and really want some hard info as to whether I should or shouldn’t do this. Can anyone point to some authorities information or a link
Gary

The Whitworth is different than your TC and a lot of other guns where the screw plugs the clean out.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I am concerned, I remove the “clean out” screw each time I clean my TC Seneca and patriot and really want some hard info as to whether I should or shouldn’t do this. Can anyone point to some authorities information or a link
Gary

Considering that T/C removed the "clean out" screw from their snail and installed the non removable plug on the other side of the barrel, I would think the circumstantial evidence is in the favor of those of us that do not remove that screw.

 

[BP Addict]

I've always been intrigued by the design. They have a reproduction at my local shop marked "Volunteer" with a .451 bore. What's the difference? TIA!

 

[Widows Son]

I've always been intrigued by the design. They have a reproduction at my local shop marked "Volunteer" with a .451 bore. What's the difference? TIA!

As far as I can tell you:
The Whitworth rifle and Volunteer rifles was built on the “frame” of the military service rifle musket of the time, the 1853 Enfield .577 caliber. The shape of the lock, the rifle stock etc…all about the same. The Whitworth used a mechanically fitting bullet to mate with the hexagonal shape of the bore in .45 calibe, yet maintained the weight of the bullet used in the Enfield. Time passed and experience gained showed that the mechanical fitting hexagonal bullet was irrelevant and that it was the closely fitted bullet and rate of twist that gave such excellent accuracy.
‘The Volunteer rifle again kept the Enfield rifle musket frame but had a .45 barrel with improved Henry or Medford rifling in traditional round bore.

No doubt more learned and eloquent writers than myself will explain it better

 

[ResearchPress]

I've always been intrigued by the design. They have a reproduction at my local shop marked "Volunteer" with a .451 bore. What's the difference? TIA!

As noted by Widows Son, Parker-Hale’s ‘Whitworth’ model is fitted with a barrel using Joseph Whitworth’s characteristic hexagonal rifling. It can be loaded with a mechanically fitting hexagonal section bullet or a cylindrical bullet. The .45 bore has a 1 in 20 pitch rifling and typical 19thC bullets weighed 530 grains. This commenced as a military rifle design in the mid-late 1850s, but a new market was to open up for Whitworth.

Rifle Volunteers Corps (akin to the US National Guard) were established in 1859, closely followed by the establishment of the NRA(UK). With the first NRA rifle meeting at Wimbledon in 1860 and Royal Patronage rifle shooting became a popular pastime. Rifle Volunteers used their .577 rifles in competition and ‘Any Rifle’ events open to all-comers saw the ‘small-bore’ .45 rifle widely used. The latter saw many makers enter the market following the principles established by Whitworth - Rigby from Ireland and Alex. Henry from Scotland being just two examples. These rifles of the early 1860s externally appeared as a full-stocked military rifle.

Parker-Hale used ‘Volunteer’ as a marketing name for their ‘military match’ rifle, originally introduced with a form of Rigby rifling, and later switching to Henry rifling. (The latter have a ‘H’ prefix to the serial number).

Typically the .577 Enfields in the hands of Rifle Volunteers were used in competition out to 600 yards, whereas the .45 rifles used in Any-Rifle events would be used to 1000 yards.

David