ID on Hawken rifle?

[DillyJamba]

Recently sent these photos, seller claims no info on barrel and that it's "30-40 years old" anyone familiar with what this might be and value?

Sorry for limited photos its what I was sent

 

[Mulebrain]

The in letting of the lock is horrendous, the trigger guard isn't correct, and probably a bunch more mistakes. Post up more pictures if you have them, in order to establish value.

I have a real nice hawken for sale in the for sale section

 

[DillyJamba]

The in letting of the lock is horrendous, the trigger guard isn't correct, and probably a bunch more mistakes. Post up more pictures if you have them, in order to establish value.

I have a real nice hawken for sale in the for sale section

I have to agree, just browsing through cheap auctions. Thats a nice rifle!

 

[Grenadier1758]

@DillyJamba, that rifle seems to fall into that category of what I have referred to as a "West (St. Louis) County Special. These were rifles made about 30 to 40 years ago. Some were made by fairly talented craftsmen. Others not so talented, but they wanted to make a muzzleloading rifle because of the bicentennial. It appears to be made from a variety of accumulated parts. The lock inlet is way too deep. Not sure who made the lock. Are there any identifying markings on the barrel? Nice looking wood. It would have to priced pretty low and the barrel in excellent shape to pique my interest.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Kind of hard to put a value on it with only those pictures. That is a beautiful piece of wood. The thing that jumped out to me was that lock is all wrong for a Hawken.

 

[CuNosecap]

A mentioned, the lock is not correct and poorly inlet, as is the tang. But if barrel is OK fo full length, that wood is great, you might be able to swap in a better fitting lock and turn it into a nice rifle. Depends on rest of condition.

 

[HSmithTX]

I am not seeing confirmed bad inletting of the lock, I am seeing MILES of wood that needs to come off that stock. The lock is set super deep into the side of the stock, and the forearm forward of the lock looks to be almost a quarter inch thick. The inletting to me could be really good, just not where it needs to be, I can't say for sure with the pics we have. It also looks like the tang is really sitting really high and proud of the wrist, lowering the tang into the stock is a TON of work because the barrel needs to be lowered too. A man needs to do some thoughtful measuring and planning to make sure the lock location will work when the barrel and tang get lowered 1/8" or so. Pins or wedges will need to be moved as well. The lock is dead wrong but if it works well it might be overlooked for a shooter/hunting rifle. It looks like it is a really nice piece of wood. Figuring out what to do and how to do it while keeping everything happy is harder than building it right to begin with to me, but if the price was low enough I'd be tempted to uncopulate that rifle.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I am not seeing confirmed bad inletting of the lock, I am seeing MILES of wood that needs to come off that stock. The lock is set super deep into the side of the stock, and the forearm forward of the lock looks to be almost a quarter inch thick. The inletting to me could be really good, just not where it needs to be, I can't say for sure with the pics we have. It also looks like the tang is really sitting really high and proud of the wrist, lowering the tang into the stock is a TON of work because the barrel needs to be lowered too. A man needs to do some thoughtful measuring and planning to make sure the lock location will work when the barrel and tang get lowered 1/8" or so. Pins or wedges will need to be moved as well. The lock is dead wrong but if it works well it might be overlooked for a shooter/hunting rifle. It looks like it is a really nice piece of wood. Figuring out what to do and how to do it while keeping everything happy is harder than building it right to begin with to me, but if the price was low enough I'd be tempted to uncopulate that rifle.

I agree. Too much wood.

 

[Mulebrain]

Ah yes too much wood, and some bad in letting as well

The lock isn't the right one either

 

[TDM]

Unless your looking for a project and the price reflects that fact I'd keep looking.

 

[Frontier's]

Poorly put together home built. Not a hawken.

 

[Hanger]

What is the difference between this lock and a hawken lock?
Size of side plate?

 

[Notchy Bob]

What is the difference between this lock and a hawken lock?
Size of side plate?

The most obvious differences would be a rounded tail on the lockplate and no decorative grooves on a Hawken lock. The lock on the subject rifle is designed to appear as a percussion conversion of a “Golden Age” flintlock, and would be much more appropriate on a longrifle.

I would agree with the comments about inletting. However, if we just back up and consider this rifle objectively, I see a Siler lock, a Griffis Tool Co. breech, and T/C triggers and triggerguard. A peculiar combination of parts, but they are all of very good quality. For all the issues with fitting and inletting, that is a beautiful piece of maple, and the builder did a good job with the finish.

As for the barrel, I’m thinking maybe Long Hammock. They made six-groove barrels, maybe with the radiused grooves like that. These were reportedly finicky about ball size, patches, and loads, but super accurate once the proper load was determined. The bore photo is not clear… the bore looks a little frosty to me but the rifling is still strong. If the bore is like that all the way to the breech, it should clean up nicely.

So, we have very good quality components that don’t really match, and they aren’t put together professionally. I would like to see some more images, including some of the other side of the rifle, and at least one full-length photo. If everything works, and the price is right, it might be a good shooter. Or, depending on the price, a talented builder might get some good parts out of it to be used in constructing other guns.

As for myself, I would pass on this one at anything more than a “giveaway” price. I’d rather have a rifle with better assembly and I don’t have the skills to use the parts.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Mulebrain]

 

[Beaverman2]

@DillyJamba, that rifle seems to fall into that category of what I have referred to as a "West (St. Louis) County Special. These were rifles made about 30 to 40 years ago. Some were made by fairly talented craftsmen. Others not so talented, but they wanted to make a muzzleloading rifle because of the bicentennial. It appears to be made from a variety of accumulated parts. The lock inlet is way too deep. Not sure who made the lock. Are there any identifying markings on the barrel? Nice looking wood. It would have to priced pretty low and the barrel in excellent shape to pique my interest.

That was my thoughts when I looked at these pics, it's what we call in my circle of shooters a "Frankenrifle"! scabbed together of leftover parts.

 

[Gtrubicon]

I stumbled across this rifle last night on gun broker. It’s kinda fugly, but I’m sure that in the right hand could be made into good looking rifle. Scrap the lock, triggers and guard and replace with appropriate parts.

 

[tallPercshooter]

Never saw a lock inletted that deeply. Guess guy wanted a heavy duty stock and left it thick.