If I wanted an Issaic Haines Flintlock:

[ronrryan]

RussT if 60 is the new 40, then 75 must be the new 55. At 55 I was still ready to lay some rubber down! All I need is some more new joints and I'll be back in the woods. Roundball, buy the Haines. I'm 76 and buying a new rifle as soon as our own star Roy is ready for me. Good smoke, God bless, Ron in FL (God's waiting room)

 

[chuck-ia]

I might be wrong, but I think you might be dragging your feet, (so to speak)because of the fullstock, ease of cleaning. I know the hooked breech is easy to clean, used to shoot a T.C. Renegade and was very picky on how it got cleaned, remove barrel and set it in a bucket of hot soapy water and scrub away. When I was done cleaning and hung the gun on the wall I was confident if I didn't touch the gun in a year it would be ok. I have been shooting fullstocks for a few years now, no hooked breech, barrel pinned to the stock, in all honesty, I think I would rather clean one of these than a hooked breech barrel. I would guess in 1/2 hour I could clean the gun and put it away and not worry if I did not get to it for a year. I think the T.C. Hawkens are nice guns, (never owned one) but handled a few. But I can't imagine, after handling a custom gun that fits you, well,it might hurt, but the hawkens will probably start collecting dust. If I remember right, weren't you thinking about this a couple years ago? I would love to hear your comparison report between the two. flinch

 

[Bob J]

Roundball-
I had never handled a swamped-barreled longrifle until Richard Sullivan was building a custom flinter for a client; it was still in the white when he took it off the garage/workshop wall and handed it to me. Shouldered it....it was like no other rifle I had ever held :bow:

With a wife and three daughters, mortgage and car payments, and all the other bills, I could hardly think of ordering a custom longrifle. But like you, factory percussion rifles eventually lost some luster. Then the bug bit...custom southern mountain flintlock! Looked at websites, and drooled, then a member of this forum Two Shadows (who soon after passed away) told me about a man he knew in Tennessee who specialized in the southern rifles, and after talking with Roger Sells, he agreed to build me one in .54 with 42" swamped GM barrel. Roundball, I don't miss the guns I sold to pay for it!

Order your Isaac Haines (or Lancaster, or early Virginia, or whatever you decide on). And enjoy shooting some of the flintlocks you have while patiently waiting for that glorious day when your one-of-a-kind-made-especially-for-Roundball custom flinter arrives

Just my 2 cents

Bob

P.S. - I didn't want pics of mine as it was being built; wanted it to be a surprise when the UPS extra long package came. I wasn't let down - don't think you will be either :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

I think a few years ago I was asking a lot of questions about various smoothbores and finally just went with GM drop-in smoothbore barrels.

No question the hooked/patent breech is a big plus as far as I'm concerned...but I don't feel the cleaning thing is a show stopper as I've studied the alternative approaches, seen photos of the cleaning process birddog6 uses and that's pretty straight forward, seems sensible, etc.

Hard to put my finger on it...may just be a combination of little things that in aggregate I'd rather not give up and I'm still weighing them back and forth...ie: if I didn't HAVE to give it up, the hooked breech would still be a good feature to have as far as I'm concerned;

Not crazy about the idea that the nearest source of models to touch & feel is a two day round trip away; And I'm spolied by the added value of using products that have life time warranties;

Also spoiled by the patent breech which by the way would be a show stopper if barrels don't exist for builders to use...need to check and see what barrel companies have to offer along these lines...not interested in fooling with barrels without one. And this may also start eliminating some builders who prefer to build rifles a certain way.

But one thing I DO know after all these years is that I can trust my instincts as the old saying goes...and right now I'm stuck in the wondering out loud phase as my instincts are not yet screaming "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead"
:grin:

 

[thewho66]

I know a lot of people here dont like Caywoods but they do build guns to switch barrels in and on a Wilson( the type I got) you push the pinns out and unscrew the tang and its out. On another flint lock I had I just put the water down the bore after taking the lock out and cleaned it in the stock. I Dont have a caliper to tell you what size Caywood uses but Im sure someone here does. The pin stock is a little larger on the Caywood than most of the others I have seen But it works. You could have the gun made to take the pins out and clean in the way you normally would. It only takes a few minutes longer. If you go that way also have the gunsmith make a pin pusher the is the same size to speed thind up. That would take care of your cleaning problems. Now for getting the gun you only live once and after all you have done with T/C guns you should at least try something new. :thumbsup:

 

I think most of the better builders have made these guns, most probably with the shorter barrels which feed the misconception that this was the common thing with his guns.Any good builder/gun history buff could make a good gun with the Haines traits if they chose to do the homework, many likely allready have.

Don Getz "invented" the first Iasac Haines kit way back in the late 70's. All the rest are direct copies of his kit. He designed it for Pennsylvania flintlock deer season, that's why it is light weight and has a 38" barrel. He called it an "Isac Haines" as it was Lancaster styled and there was a Haines gun pictured in a book with a 38" barrel.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. I have a Chambers Isaac Haines with the 38" barrel and a Lancaster style with a 44" barrel (both are Rice swamped barrels) and I would rather take the Haines out any day of the week. The balance of that rifle is just amazing.

 

[Vaino]

My first "contact" w/ MLers was a TC "Hawken" kit in 1978 and the hooked breech feature enabled me to "dunk" the bbl in a bucket of hot water and "really" get 'er clean. So....the first LR I built in 1978 had 4 keys in lieu of pins, didn't have a hooked breech but unscrewing the one tang bolt {into the TP} wasn't a big deal. The next couple of LRs also had keys as did my "Hawken" elk rifle which on an elk hunting trip "taught" me that the rifle could be thoroughly cleaned w/o "dunking " the bbl. Since that time, unless a customer wanted keys, I've pinned the bbls and haven't had any problems keeping my LRs "**** and span". Don't know if keys are PC for the time period of Isaac Haines, but would be for some other periods.....Fred

 

[squirejohn]

I'd surely handle as many styles, calibers, barrel weight etc. as you can before purchase. My wife has a Isaac Haines 50cal. made from ToW parts. It has the lightest Getz bbl. available. She likes it but it is so light that I can't hit anything with it. On theother hand I have a Chambers Early York with 42" swamped Getz bbl. that balances very well for me, although I can hold my Cabin Creek Yorktown with a GMB straight wall bbl. steadier.

 

[squirejohn]

PS Maybe it's just me but it seems everyone elses rifle holds better than mine when sighted in on the "spot on the wall", but in the "real world" taint so.

 

[Dave K]

My first experience with Ml'er was with a T/C Hawken, then a Lyman GPR. When I thought of custom gun, before I owned a couple of original guns, I did all I could trying to figure out how to get that hooked breech. Then after having those original guns and shooting them,I found the hooked breech to be an advertising hype and really kind of a PIA in comparison. Now I have shot so many more shots through these none hooked breech guns, I find they are much easier to maintain IMHO, that is why I called the hook breech advertising hype. I also had one gun built with a keyed barrel (40cal. Beck). I did it from another historical angle, though pinned is very much more common and for a reason. I have not taken the barrel out of the gun but once. Now, I have only had it 5 yrs. so it is possibly something to do again. With a properly coned and positioned vent and a good lock, I doubt if you will no the difference between the ignition speed of this or a patent breech. Again, IMHO, the patent breech just becomes another cleaning bug-a-boo that is not needed. Sometimes some of these designs were created to improve the breed and they worked. Sometimes some designs were answers to a problem that wasn't ever asked for to be corrected, except for more marketing hype.

For me, traveling for something I want is a no brainer. I don't do everyday, I just do it when it is something I want. After all, it is a possibly a once in a lifetime event. When I went hunting for bear and elk, they weren't going to bring the hunt to me, I had to go after it. The whole event builds memories, the people, the country and the time spent with people we want to be with. All are something we will all cherish from our nursing home bed.(I hope NOT!)

Heck, I am so sure you will be happy with a gun built in the tradional way, I am tempted to box one up and send it to you for your to shoot and experience it yourself. The only thing I would ask is, DO NOT take out the vent to clean. It is not something I do unless it is wore out and it isn't for many 1000 more shots.

 

[ronrryan]

My .02! I am no expert, but have shot BP for almost twenty years, maybe shot 30 muzzleloaders flint and percussion, owned 7 or 8. The Haines with light swamped barrel was the best of the lot, and I miss it every day, I sold it to kick in to my grandson's tuition, at which point he quit college to be a fireman. I love firemen but could have shot him, if I had the gun. You simply cannot believe the difference in handling. These rifles may not be proper exact replications of Mr Haines, as Mike says, but they are phenomenal to carry and shoot. Do yourself a GREAT favor and go see Chambers , I bought mine from him many, many years ago. Good smoke, Ron

 

[ronrryan]

PS you will find the cleaning not to be an issue. I have a friend who shoots out of the bag and cleans out of the bag with some tow and a bit of water. His bores are sparkling, and so will yours be. DO IT! God Bless, Ron (76 and kicking, more or less)

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Of course, you can always specify a hooked breech and a keyed barrel, if that's what you prefer. Just don't get a patent breech because they are a bit harder to clean. Did I mention that 60 is the new 40? You're never to old for a new gun, especially a flintlock! Go for it! :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Now that's the way to go about it! There's nothing like a new rifle to make a man feel young again! :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Just don't get a patent breech because they are a bit harder to clean.

:hmm: puzzled by this statement Russ...mine stay squeaky clean all the time...they actually seem to be self cleaning while I'm shooting range sessions...never have a problem, never use a vent pick, etc...and then I pump flush them of course after every range session so they stay showroom clean.

Even if I couldn't unhook the barrel to pump flush in a bucket, the pump flush method should still work with the barrel left mounted in a stock, using one of those hose attachments like birddog6 uses, right?

 

[Mike Brooks]

Even if I couldn't unhook the barrel to pump flush in a bucket, the pump flush method should still work with the barrel left mounted in a stock, using one of those hose attachments like birddog6 uses, right?

Yep :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Just checked Mapquest for Tip Curtis' Frontier Shop in Tennessee...1200 mile round trip.

 

[Packdog]

Roundball.
Is there a club somehwere around you where they shoot BP guns. Maybe someone in the club has a Lancaster styped gun you could shoot.
Ken

 

[roundball]

You know, that's not a bad idea...there was a ML club a couple hours south of me called the Lafayette Longrifles...drove down there in January as a matter of fact about 10 years ago when they were holding what they called their "Cold Toes Shoot" one weekend...just watched them shooting for an hour then headed back...never thought about it much again as a 4 hour round trip was just too much for weekend shooting...I'll dig around and find out if its still active...see if I can get a club member on the phone, see what's going on...thanks

 

[nchawkeye]

RB...The guy over on the NC Site, Buck, who is in Fayetteville is usually at the DDC...He brings a few rifles with him...Most are members rifles and some aren't built that great, but you might get a feel for the different barrel lengths...

I think this is kinda like how long do you want your knife blade to be for skinning deer...Pretty much any length will work, one might feel better to you than me...