If you can't get real Black Powder

[TNGhost]

Don't believe internet advertising.

So in other words you don't know if it is back available for general purchase or not.

Anybody else got any ideas on this as I am still confused as to whether Black MZ is back in circulation?

At 10 bucks it was cheaper than black powder and perfectly suitable for some applications.

 

[arcticap]

Don't believe internet advertising.

Perhaps you can believe this, every powder has its advantages and disadvantages.
And that includes black powder.

 

[TNGhost]

I happen to have a use for Black MZ and I am simply looking for a straight answer on its availability.

 

[LST-1185]

TNGhost, the short answer to your question is no. Black MZ is not being produced under the Alliant label by American Pioneer at this time. When APP had their fire in 2016 that stop their production. Alliant had no choice but to discontinued Black MZ. Since then APP has rebuilt their plant and is again producing powder under their own label and under the Shooter World label. For reasons, that I am not aware of, Alliant has not signed a new contract with APP to produce powder for them under their label of Black MZ. Lastly, folks I'm posting this information as just that and nothing more. Whatever powder you chose to use and are happy with then that is the right powder for you. Best regards to all of you.

 

[Okie Hog]

Yep, i began using Black MZ soon as it hit the market. The stuff is/was a little coarser than other powders but it won't "kitty litter": Not even close. Never had a misfire with Black MZ that was not my fault.

Black MZ and the other APP powders like a tight fitting ball seated hard on the powder. Early on APP and Alliant blew it with recommendations not to compress the powder.

A ballistician friend chronographed Jim Shockey's Gold, Pinnacle and Black MZ powder. Black MZ velocities from properly loaded guns exceeded those of Goex and other black powders with the exception of Swiss.

So then why did Alliant discontinue it, and why has it been rebranded under what is essentially a "no-name" ?

1. The factory burned down.

2. i don't know.

Sportsman's Warehouse lost money on every can of Black MZ sold. In the marketing community that is called a "loss leader": "Loss leaders" are designed to draw customers into the stores in hope they will buy other stuff as well.

 

[toot]

Hello Carbon 6
there are some cities or counties where, I am told, Black Gunpowder is illegal, but substitutes are legal.
American Pioneer Powder comes in three labels
American Pioneer Powder white label
Jim Shockey's Gold a "premium formulation" decorated label
Alliant Black MZ manufactured by APP for Alliant black label.
All three are the same basic formulation for marketing I suppose..
I have used both Jim Shokey's and Black MZ and see no difference in performance or appearance.
My opinion is APP in any label is a better option than Pyrodex but opinions are like belly buttons every one has one.
Your firearm so do as you please. My option is either FFFg GOEX or BMZ depending on how I feel.
Respectfully Submitted
Bunk

BELLY BUTTONS? every one has one? not if you are an ALIEN!

 

[Carbon 6]

I happen to have a use for Black MZ and I am simply looking for a straight answer on its availability, not "the world according to Carbon6"

I gave you the answer straight from the manufacturer's mouth, can't get any more "substantive" than that.

Keep in mind, If you do find Black MZ on the shelf somewhere or you still have some yourself, it is at least 5 years old and getting older, as it was made before the plant blew up.

 

[Carbon 6]

"Loss leaders" are designed to draw customers into the stores in hope they will buy other stuff as well.

I don't believe for one second that Black MZ was a "Loss Leader".
A loss for Alliant, yes.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I found 2 containers of powder blocked in by tools in my garage for 30 years. forgot they were there. one open pound of pyrodex and same for american pioneer. this was a garage with no heat not connected to the house. the pyrodex was caked up. so I mixed it until it was ok. very hard to ignite after putting some on a piece of metal and lighting it. the AP powder lit like it was new as soon as the flame got near it. I was amazed how long it lasted almost being outside. I think AP is excellent powder

 

[Okie Hog]

Advocates of unholy black powder trashed the APP powders, especially Black MZ. Most of the detractors never fi;red a round using Black MZ.

 

[Carbon 6]

Advocates of unholy black powder trashed the APP powders, especially Black MZ. Most of the detractors never fired a round using Black MZ.

I tried it in muzzleloading rifles, pistols and shotguns. I hated it in a rifle, kinda liked it in a shotgun after I modified the gun to make it fire reliably.. I even tried it in a flintlock (very disappointed). I also tried it in modern cartridge guns, Really liked it in shotgun again, but it destroys brass, and shells degraded in about a year.
If I could buy it for $9.99 a pound I'd shoot a lot of it probably, just for the economics but then even at that price smokeless powder is more economical and has none of the detractors Real BP might cost more depending on where you live, but it far more useful IMO.
So, for me Black MZ is an orphan child.
Cabela's gouging customers and selling it for $36.00 a pound really left a bad taste in my mouth too.
Then there is the cleaning issue. But hey, I gave it a fair shot.

 

[TNGhost]

TNGhost, the short answer to your question is no. Black MZ is not being produced under the Alliant label by American Pioneer at this time. When APP had their fire in 2016 that stop their production. Alliant had no choice but to discontinued Black MZ. Since then APP has rebuilt their plant and is again producing powder under their own label and under the Shooter World label. For reasons, that I am not aware of, Alliant has not signed a new contract with APP to produce powder for them under their label of Black MZ. Lastly, folks I'm posting this information as just that and nothing more. Whatever powder you chose to use and are happy with then that is the right powder for you. Best regards to all of you.

Thank You

 

[Mulebrain]

Funny they call it "American Pioneer Powder", when we all know American Pioneers never used it.

 

[SPQR70AD]

american pioneers never used a 50K pkup truck to get to a ML match or I phones to talk to each other to set it up. never had central heat/AC shower fridges electric etc

 

[Okie Hog]

Funny they call it "American Pioneer Powder", when we all know American Pioneers never used it.

Yep, they lacked micrometers to measure thickness of patch material, moose milk, Ed's red, compressed air to blow out dry balls and lots of other stuff.

 

[arcticap]

I happen to have a use for Black MZ and I am simply looking for a straight answer on its availability

About a month ago the Jedediah Starr Trading Co. still had some Black MZ listed as being in stock for $25.99 but it's out of stock today.
Maybe they have a source since now they're selling old APP Pinnacle powder for $24.95.
That not only shows that it has a good shelf life, but that its retail value actually increased as it aged.
They're extra high Hazmat/shipping fee was probably the reason why they had Black MZ in stock for such a long time.
The fact that Goex invested in putting their label on the APP Pinnacle powder says a lot about APP quality.
Too bad Goex didn't rebuild their Clear Shot plant after it burned, but tried to sell relabeled APP instead.

 

[Carbon 6]

Goex Pinnacle, Alliant Black MZ, I think it was just a passing fad that they both got burnt on.
I'm waiting for Alliant to start making real black powder and give Goex some competition.
If it was cheaper than Goex, I'd buy it.

 

[Carbon 6]

Hodgdon just bought the Blackhorn 209 brand so expect that to become the new "flavor of the month".

 

[mooman76]

I hope they can sell it cheaper. I've wanted to try it but not for the current price.

 

[Carbon 6]

I hope they can sell it cheaper. I've wanted to try it but not for the current price.

I hope they discontinue it.