Ignition speed issue? Possibly?

[robtattoo]

So, I just refinished my first ever flinter. A .54 Cabelas Hawken that was very poorly put together, badly finished, not well cared for but as cheap as cheap can be & it kept me occupied for a few hours.

Anyway, I'm used to caplocks & almost instant, centerfire speed ignition. I just tried my first few shots with the flincher & boy, did I flich!

I primed the pan to about half-full with some ground up FFF Goex & the pan flashed every time, but there is a definite delay between the flash & the bang. It's not a huge delay, barely a 10th of a second, if I were to hazard a guess, but enough to be noticeable.
When I'm shooting at the club, I notice that most guys flinters are instantaneous, or near enough to not make a difference. What am I doing wrong?

Th gun is an Investarms & I assume that the touch-hole liner is the standard affair. I had to use a lot more prime than I imagined to get it to go bang reliably (1/2 to 2/3 of a pan) & if there was any space between the powder & the touch-hole, nada. I picked the hole after loading each time but I just couldn't get a real quick bang.

Am I doing something wrong, or am I expecting a bit much?

 

[rabjr]

Your not covering the vent hole right? Just fill powder up to the bottom of the vent, no more.

 

[robtattoo]

The bottom of the touch hole is level with the top of the pan, so should I fill the pan level to this point?
Everything I've read here has led me to believe I should use as little prime as possible, although I suppose this varies from gun to gun.
I was filling the pan about 2/3rds at most, so I would guess my prime was 1/16" or so below the vent.
Not enough prime maybe?

 

[rabjr]

Not saying that. Everyone seems to treat prime differently, some pour it in and some try to get away with as little as possible. I myself like to prime my gun with a good charge. The gun generally will tell you how much prime it likes. Whatever you do, just make sure the vent hole is never covered by the prime which I gather, your not doing.

 

[robtattoo]

Thanks Swampy, I didn't have much time to play around today, but hopefully I'll have a little more time tomorrow evening. I'll try adjusting my prime charge. I didn't know not to cover the vent, actually. I guess I just did't do it by accident! :grin:
I only finished it today & I've only test fired it to make sure it wouldn't go up in my face. Happily, it didn't. :shocked2:

I'm definately going to try & get to the range this weekend & work up a load or two. I can see how this rocklock thing could get addictive!

 

[ebiggs1]

Prime is cheap so don't you be! I like more better than less. Against the touch hole is not bad and is not causing slow ignition so don't worry about that. I also like a #50 drill size hole in the liner. The flintlock can be nearly as fast as a cap lock but it will never be as quick.

 

[swamp.fox]

u might want to see if the wrong size touch hole liner is installed, if no liner..maby the touch hole is incorrectly placed or wrong size.. also.
make sure nothing is blocking it..

it could also be your powder...

 

[nchawkeye]

If I'm understanding you then you need to fill the pan completely...You said the bottom of the hole is level with the top of the pan so the hole is covered by the frizzen when closed...

The guys that talk about a half pan of prime have their touch hole too low so priming powder fills it in acting like a fuse which slows ignition...

High is good...

 

[rafterob]

Everything I've read here has led me to believe I should use as little prime as possible

As already noted you will read suggestions from a broad spectrum of experience. I don't know the breech design of the investarms hawken but if it has a patent style breech, that can affect things. Are you using 2f or 3f? Try placing the vent pick in the hole before loading and then removing it after loading.

 

[robtattoo]

Thanks, it has a fairly long patent breech. I'm shooting FF, but I have FFF to try too.

 

[tg]

I would check the size of the hole many folks these days are going to a hole larger than the typical 1/16" and also these are some guns with a narrow passage twixt the prime and main charge which need be kept clean and dry some have even enlarger it as I recall if you are getting a lot of consistant pan flashes at least you have a good lock/frizzen which is half the battle with many production guns, I would definately use the 3f as the main charge it will stack the odds in your favour for fast ignition.

 

[Burningprince]

your touchhole is in the "sunrise" position. So i would try fff in the main charge and prime the pan a third of the way with ffff. your prime is probably obstructing ignition i tend to put my touchhole higher. Also see if your flint is sparking reliably and consistently

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I have a fowler that shoots really well with 2F but the ignition is slow. It might have to do with the liner. But what I did was to load about 6 grains of 4F down the barrel before I loaded 55 grains of 2F. I also turned the flint to the bevel down position. Ignition is instantaneous. I fill the pan to 2/3 full and bank it towards the flash hole. YMMV

 

[Ron_T.]

I suggest you try FFFg for your main powder charge and FFFFg for your frizzen pan.

Here's how I got my flinter to fire the main charge more quickly. In fact, it SEEMS as fast as my cap-lock rifles.

First, load the rifle with a good charge of FFFg. Then poke the end of a straightened out paper clip into the touch hole to make a "hole" or opening in the packed main powder charge inside the flash channel.

Then tilt the rifle to the left and pour a good amount of FFFFg into the frizzen pan right next to where the pan meets the barrel (just below the touch-hole).

When the touch-hole is covered, lightly slap the base of the barrel a couple of times on the left side of the base of the barrel with the rifle tilted to the left. This should cause some of the FFFFg to slide down into the touch hole and, thus, into the powder channel as well where it is surrounded by the FFFg of the main charge.

Then tilt the rifle slightly to the RIGHT and slap the base of the barrel a couple of times again. This should clear the touch hole of any FFFFg and spread the FFFFg out in your frizzen pan.

Don't hit the barrel too much in this position. You wanna leave SOME of the FFFFg powder in the flash channel inside the touch hole. Once the FFFFg is fairly equally distributed in the frizzen pan making the pan at least half full (or more).

If necessary, add a little more FFFFg to the frizzen pan to bring the powder in the pan up to at least HALF full, bring the hammer back to full cock, aim carefully and fire the rifle.

It should go off almost instantly due to the FFFFg powder being inside the touch hole in the flash channel surrounded by the FFFg of the main powder charge.

Good luck...and make good smoke! :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[roundball]

Thanks, it has a fairly long patent breech. I'm shooting FF, but I have FFF to try too.

Maybe they're different from the Patent Breeches in T/C and GM barrels ??

Reason I ask is that I've owned / shot / hunted a good dozen Patent Breech T/C and GM barrels over all the years and they've always been outstanding...never had to do anything special with the vent.

I just drop the powder charge downbore, bump the side of the lock area to ensure powder gets over tight against the vent opening, drop 3grns Goex 4F in the pan, close the frizzen and start hunting.

They served me so well, was so trouble free, and gave such seemingly instantaneous ignition for 18 years that when I recently had some long guns built, I had Patent Breech design breechplugs made for the GM and Rice barrels in the builds.

Based on those experiences, IMO, unless your Patent Breech has some sort of different internal dimensions or obstruction, I wouldn't waste a lot of time worrying about the Patent Breech causing your ignition problems.

My .02 cents...

 

[Melton Kidd]

I see that you say that you pick the vent after you load. I tried that and it pushed the powder away from the vent, resulting in a delay. I pick/clean vent before loading and get no delay. Some shooters will tell you that you have to pick after loading to make a channel into the powder, that if you don't you will get a delay.

I suggest that you try picking/cleaning the vent before loading to determine if it helps. It may or may not, you decide.

 

[Macon Due]

I seemed to have the same expierence as signcutter,if I picked after loading I had a delay.If I picked before [just to ensure the vent was clear] I have no delay.
Macon

 

[cas]

I will add that perception can play a part in it as well. I recently video taped a me taking a couple shots with my new (to me) rifle. In they video the look pretty instantaneous. They sure didn't feel that way when I fired them.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, "Instantaneous" is a bit different to each person.

Some of it depends on what the shooter is concentrating on as the shot is fired.
If he is thinking of, "how long will it take to fire?" the speed may be quite noticable. If he is thinking of, "Hold it right there (or on target)." the time lag may be totally unnoticed.

In any case, Mr. Pletch has proven that a good flintlock will take over 10 times longer to fire than a modern centerfire rifle does and some people notice that lag.

To me, that is one of the flintlocks charms. It is old fashioned technology that takes a good marksman to get the best out of it.
When the shots start hitting the point of aim each time, to me there is a satisfaction that goes far beyond anything modern guns can give.

 

[watopeka]

welcome to patience, i think you should shoot it a while on a bench to get the feel of it.Going to a percussion to flint there is an adaptation to the gun going off. After 100 shots or so you should get a better feel for the gun when it goes off. You will then be able to feel a slow or fast ingnition then go from there and keep record for while when the slow persist. It's usally a bunch of little details.It whon't take long you will find what it likes and not. Enjoy