^ THIS! ^
Importance of Shot Placement vs Power
- Thread starter Johnny Too-Tall
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Yes they do. I've seen too many deer and antelope with jaws shot off by head shooters. Slob hunting in my opinion.
Yes there are people that have no business trying to shoot an animal in the head if their skill is not right. Pronghorn/Deer after a certain yardage head shots should not be done.
Sir I know what you say about a blowgun, but that weapon is not for common hunters. I don't know much about them but they never caught my interest in the field of hunting.
I was actually referring to shooting a .22 bullet from one for a power comparison.
The darts would be more compared to a bow. I actually have one I have hunted squirrel and rabbit with. With a little time and patience a hunter can become decent enough for close range hunting. They are a lot of fun and adds another level of challenge, much like our smoke poles. But, as with anything else, you must know the limits of the weapon and yourself then stay well within those limits. Again, like our smoke poles.
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I can't help but laugh a little!I have shot rabbits with a shotgun and couldn't find where one shot hit it but it was dead?I also shot a rabbit with my bow and the arrow went completely through it and it managed to run 30 yards? I had a friend when I was in my teens that hunted squirrels with a slingshot. he never got a passthrough that I am aware of but he took several squirrels? LOL!
My number one suggestion is to shoot once for every yard your maximum shot would be in the conditions you will be hunting in. Example: you're hunting in heavy brush country and the farthest shot you might take is 100 yards. You then take 100 shots with the same weapon and load prior to hunting.
Limits; I gave up using CF firearms some 20+ years ago because I wasn't hunting. I was shooting deer and hogs but I wasn't really hunting. If that's not your thing I'm not condemning it, I enjoyed it very much but my personal choice is muzzle loaders now. Also, my aging eyeballs and use of iron sights now limits my shots to 80 yards or less. That's just me.
I was also a hunting guide for several ranches here in Texas, brief as it was. I've had clients who were told "do not gut shoot your a animal!!" Well, that almost guarantees they will but it does kill critters dead in their tracks. Then there are they folks that think bigger is better and that practice is for the first day at the ranch. Brand new 45/70? Nice, but how does it shoot? You bought a .416 Rigby to hunt deer with? But you're afraid to shoot it again? Great......
I've loaned my rifles out numerous times only to be questioned on it's effectiveness on _______ game we're hunting. Handgun rounds out of a rifle barrel, 100+ year old cartridge no one has ever heard of? You'd think I'd never used any of them on game; ever. It's sighted in for 100 yards I'd tell them. I've seen guys shoot the d!ck off a hog using his big bore howitzer rifle while his son puts his hog down with one shot using my rifle, placing the bullet right were I told him to.
If you are a member here Jim, I hope you learned a valuable lesson. I do apologize if it embarrasses you in any way but your performance has never been duplicated.
Practice, shot placement and knowing your limitations.
Limits; I gave up using CF firearms some 20+ years ago because I wasn't hunting. I was shooting deer and hogs but I wasn't really hunting. If that's not your thing I'm not condemning it, I enjoyed it very much but my personal choice is muzzle loaders now. Also, my aging eyeballs and use of iron sights now limits my shots to 80 yards or less. That's just me.
I was also a hunting guide for several ranches here in Texas, brief as it was. I've had clients who were told "do not gut shoot your a animal!!" Well, that almost guarantees they will but it does kill critters dead in their tracks. Then there are they folks that think bigger is better and that practice is for the first day at the ranch. Brand new 45/70? Nice, but how does it shoot? You bought a .416 Rigby to hunt deer with? But you're afraid to shoot it again? Great......
I've loaned my rifles out numerous times only to be questioned on it's effectiveness on _______ game we're hunting. Handgun rounds out of a rifle barrel, 100+ year old cartridge no one has ever heard of? You'd think I'd never used any of them on game; ever. It's sighted in for 100 yards I'd tell them. I've seen guys shoot the d!ck off a hog using his big bore howitzer rifle while his son puts his hog down with one shot using my rifle, placing the bullet right were I told him to.
If you are a member here Jim, I hope you learned a valuable lesson. I do apologize if it embarrasses you in any way but your performance has never been duplicated.
Practice, shot placement and knowing your limitations.
I've never seen a gut shot animal "killed dead in it's tracks."
longcruise
70 Cal.
Me neither. The only animal I've lost was a deer that inexplicably took a sudden hop forward just as I took the shot with a 54. It was only 20 yards. Full pass through with a fan of stomach contents spread out on the far side. I and my partner spent a day and a half looking for that deer and never found it. It certainly didn't survive.
I have, several times. They still stink like Hades. I've also seen a feral hog shot through both lungs that left pink lung material on the tree beside it run over a mile at full tilt. Onto the neighboring property where we did not have permission to be. Another time and place the hog was completely eviscerated and dead 20 seconds after the shot from a CF cartridge that is better suited to 300 yards and not 35. Still didn't take a step and I told him exactly when the hits would show up and NOT to gut shoot it like he'd done the day before on a pregnant axis doe.
I wholeheartedly agree that nothing makes up for a bad shot; not size of caliber, speed of said projectile nor distance to target. Practice putting that bullet in the right spot within limitations and you'll be successful barring any sudden unknowns.
Hogs must be extremely tough animals. For one to run over a mile shot threw both lungs.I've never ever seen a deer go over 100 yards shot through both lungs or heart. Hogs are amazing...!
I somewhat agree in that mass and velocity are important figures -- critical in fact. But because KE = mass x velocity squared, it is, a meaningless figure to me. Mass and velocity as separate figures are far more meaningful than the resulting KE figure which squares the velocity. Momentum is a little more meaningful. But because the combined figure alone doesn't tell us what how the momentum is achieved (due to more mass or more velocity), then it still comes up short as a stand-alone figure. Momentum achieved through mass is far more "powerful" than momentum achieved through velocity since resistance in the air and in tissue increase exponentially with velocity while mass is constant (apart from issues of fragmentation).
I recall back in my school days that KE was important in determining penetration in solid objects. So more KE would result in more penetration on things like steel plates. But momentum would be a better figure to use when looking at penetration in fluids, which is more like animal tissue and air. Neither represent "power" so much as a specific, intended result.
Comparing arrows to most rifle rounds is definitely an apples to oranges comparison. But comparing arrows to slow bullets, like handguns and muzzleloaders is much closer. Maybe more like apples and pears. Both rely on blood loss and there is little damage outside of the wound channel. I don't have too many carcasses to compare in my experience. My ML critters have all fallen to .50s and I don't push my balls & bullets that fast. But my ML wounds look more like arrow hits than CF rifle hits. Neither is getting into that 2400+ fps range where the energy is really stretching the tissue. Maybe the larger calibers do -- I don't really know. I've heard that shotgun slugs look more like CF rifle hits.
