In over my head with mystery rifle?

[vintovka]

I acquired a beautiful tiger maple full stock "rifle" in what i believe is Bedford style. It is simply line engraved and only metal was nose cap and barrel. The latter is an unfired (?)_ .45 Green River, 13/16" 42" flinter, with plug, touchhole liner, wedding bands and reduced flats last 20" or so. The barrel is dovetailed for sights but has underlugs (installed and pinned to stock). First problem is that's all that's there. No lock and nothing else. Its fully inletted for everything but few clues as to what they were. For some unknown reason someone "backfilled" nearly all the inletting (and several mistakes with acraglas. Spent several hours trying to match parts with inletting at Gun Works. They were very patient and made like a 100 trips to the stock room. I now have a patchbox, thimbles, triggers. A large Siler/chambers lock fit close but will need acraglas to fill previous beaver chewing. will keep trying and posting pics if anyone is interested. Comments and suggestions on parts and any help near Florence Oregon would be greatly appreciated

 

[LawrenceA]

You could always go get a chambers gunmakers lock.
https://www.flintlocks.com/locks6.htmIt is a big rectangle so you can give it the shape you want.
The Bedford school is for a very narrow lockplate but this will allow you to make a traditional shape that covers your existing inlet.
Or make your own lockplate from brass. Much easier to work than iron or steel. cheap enough you can throw away any fails.
You amy be able to thin the stock to remove most of the patchbox inlet but you will need to have the appropriate Buttplate. Or again could make your own patchbox lid.

Just take it easy and it will come out OK.

 

[vintovka]

The lock mortise is very chewed up and partially redone with acraglas. Theres a chunk of wood missing near tang and other boo-boo that may have to be re glassed. IMHO there has been some previous half hearted efforts to restore it and that it will never be perfect The barrel was inletted incorrectly and then all the cross pins installed. The tang will always be proud of the top of the wrist and there's a gap below the rear of the barrel. Either the tang will need lots of work or a surround added as too much wood has been removed already. The Large siler now drops in the mortise but will need glassing to "fix". Fitting the extra long trigger guard 10" with pins in lieu of the original screws may be fun. Will go at it slow (i have no other speed at age) but could sure use help. Gun Works found a big Beck buttplate but no toeplate or sideplate that were close. Ran out of $ at $300 for parts so it will have to wait unless someone has something close.

 

[LawrenceA]

Ouch!
I see what you mean. Looks like a chunk of Maple would be handy for patches.
Could be better to get a new stock.

 

[vintovka]

Nah. I have restored worse for shooting purposes. My greatest issues is my hands disobeying brain and the parts cost is stupid high. If it looks good at 15 feet and shoots well that is all i ask.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Burn it. Start with a new one.

 

[LawrenceA]

Nah. I have restored worse for shooting purposes. My greatest issues is my hands disobeying brain and the parts cost is stupid high. If it looks good at 15 feet and shoots well that is all i ask.

In that case. Best of luck and keep us posted.

You are lucky everything is double the cost here and almost impossible to get without importing from the States.

 

[vintovka]

Burn it. Start with a new one.

Sorry, sucker for semi lost causes here. Perfect pretty rifles are for looking at. Imperfect ones, resurrected from the dead, are my fav for shooting. The real question is how this poor thing wound up losing all its original parts but retaining an unfired barrel????? Also who fills in previous inlets with glas??? The big deterrent from now on is cost/availability -- gonna put a big dent (possibly fatal) in the hobby.

 

[TommyG]

From what I see in your pictures, I would be real worried about the position of the lock/barrel relationship. That lock is way too far forward. The rear lock bolt seems it would end up where the top bridle screw is for the tumbler, also looks like the touch hole would end up too far forward of the breach

 

[vintovka]

From what I see in your pictures, I would be real worried about the position of the lock/barrel relationship. That lock is way too far forward. The rear lock bolt seems it would end up where the top bridle screw is for the tumbler, also looks like the touch hole would end up too far forward of the breach

Thanks. So far its ok but not perfect. I share your concern so i took a look/pic what do you think?

 

[TommyG]

This pic does give a bit more perspective. I can see a seam at the breach lug which would account for the touch hole being as far forward as it is, as the distance might include the stand off from the lug. But still, the rear lock bolt would end up in an undesirable location. Did you by chance look at a Bedford lock? I am not familiar with the Bedford school, but maybe the architecture is different from a large Siler.

 

[Mulebrain]

A Track of The Wolf catalog is a big help with projects like this. All the parts in their printed catalog are the exact size.
I understand your desire to make a shooter out of it, I would as well. I would make this like an old gun that had repairs along the way etc..... Wood patches, and distress it

 

[vintovka]

This pic does give a bit more perspective. I can see a seam at the breach lug which would account for the touch hole being as far forward as it is, as the distance might include the stand off from the lug. But still, the rear lock bolt would end up in an undesirable location. Did you by chance look at a Bedford lock? I am not familiar with the Bedford school, but maybe the architecture is different from a large Siler.

Good eye!! I went out to shop. Inserted plate and ran a close sized transfer punch thru and marked plate. The rear hole that passes thru plug lines up perfectly and both lock screws appear to miss any internal components just fine so thanks for inspiring me to check. Gonna call it the "franken-flinter"!!!

 

[oldwood]

The stock shape is not Bedford. It's a Lehigh valley ,Pa. The Patch box is Lehigh as well. This rifle could be restored , with the right parts. Anyone who can build a rifle from scratch , and can repair a rifle with these injuries seen on the above rifle.

 

[vintovka]

A Track of The Wolf catalog is a big help with projects like this. All the parts in their printed catalog are the exact size.
I understand your desire to make a shooter out of it, I would as well. I would make this like an old gun that had repairs along the way etc..... Wood patches, and distress it

Thanks but current TOTW catalog says out of stock, wish i had access to one. Buttplate and toeplate are gonna be a PITA!!

 

[vintovka]

The stock shape is not Bedford. It's a Lehigh valley ,Pa. The Patch box is Lehigh as well. This rifle could be restored , with the right parts. Anyone who can build a rifle from scratch , and can repair a rifle with these injuries seen on the above rifle.

Thanks I now agree. The "no comb" thru me. The bedford locks are very, very narrow. I tried one at GunWorks and gaps were enormous. I have a really old repop Lehigh patchbox that will fit nicely. They had to dig thru many boxes in the warehouse to find one. I have not seen one online for a long while. The box was key to restoring it.

I have built about two dozen but aways kits or restoration. More of a machinist/assembler, never a craftsman especially when wood is involved. I have the "fecal" touch when it comes wood and nothing but admiration and envy when i see some of the members work here.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Do not know about the butt plate, but a toe plate should be a easy job, get a piece of flat brass and make one.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Also after looking at the pics of the breech tang could you make the mortise deeper and bend the tang too fit, then a bit of file work too smooth things up, I am no rifle builder but it is on my bucket list, and I follow the builders on the site kind of like a mail order rifle building class, soon I think I will take on the project.

 

[vintovka]

Made a number from scratch but simple ones. was hoping this was inletted for a production plate, Sideplate not too hard but inletted for an ugly one.

 

[vintovka]

Also after looking at the pics of the breech tang could you make the mortise deeper and bend the tang too fit, then a bit of file work too smooth things up, I am no rifle builder but it is on my bucket list, and I follow the builders on the site kind of like a mail order rifle building class, soon I think I will take on the project.

Thanks for suggestion but issues like the "fixed" position of the barrel (and the previous owner (s) removal of so much wood) doesn't help. I bent the tang down as far as i dare for right now but could lower tang end to wood surface. Now considering beveling tang sides to mimic the lockplate. Tastefully beveling the plug top is also doable but not sure. Will have to wait after all boo-boo's are glassed and feathered in. Bone black may be an option to conceal some of the defects. Decided searching for TOTW catalog and have a 1980 Log Cabin catalog to trade.

I looked at the Kibler videos and they are great. If your going to build a kit i would buy one of his ASAP as he cannot keep his prices down with what is happening right now. I paid nearly $200 for my lock which is 300% more than i ever paid before.