India Barrel Failure

[FlinterNick]

I know from what kind of steel my barrels are made, may the force be with you.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Until someone comes in with a solid study of materials and fatigue and failure rates right down to the crystallization structure such materials then the questioning of comparing one to the other is peeing into a fan

 

[tenngun]

Until someone comes in with a solid study of materials and fatigue and failure rates right down to the crystallization structure such materials then the questioning of comparing one to the other is peeing into a fan

I don’t know if we need go that far. Certainly in old days they could do little other then over charge it and toss a few ball and see if it held.
Today we can just look for failures, they ain’t there except poorly loaded or abused and all to many smokeless
Springs can break on any gun

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

The only way is to test the raw material that barrel A is made from versus Barrel B before it is even made into a barrel.
Both similar in dimension as a stock bar or ingot.
Both subjected to forces and impacts as raw material up to their failure point.
Inclusive of xrays of both materials for voids and imperfections upon forging of said raw material.
When a Aircraft fails the wreckage and its pieces are examined for shear points right down to the highest magnification and scrutiny.
It all comes down to how much internally that crystallization can be compressed up to the point where it fails.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I don’t know if we need go that far. Certainly in old days they could do little other then over charge it and toss a few ball and see if it held.
Today we can just look for failures, they ain’t there except poorly loaded or abused and all to many smokeless
Springs can break on any gun

Springs yes can break on any gun. But we are talking about solid steels.
forge a spring and it may last forever or not. Depends on so many variables
Just like barrels the same rules apply. How did they make it and what checkpoints were involved in its production..

AKA tensile strength

 

[SDSmlf]

I know from what kind of steel my barrels are made, may the force be with you.

I have to ask, what particular kind of certified steel are your barrels made out of? It would be interesting to see some of the material certs and the accompanying data.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I don't think nick makes barrels, at least I haven't seen or heard of any.

 

[SDSmlf]

I don't think nick makes barrels, at least I haven't seen or heard of any.

Doesn’t matter if Nick actually makes his barrels, just interested in seeing barrel steel material certs. It’s information I would love to know going forward. I hate to repeat my own and other’s mistakes.

 

[FlinterNick]

I have to ask, what particular kind of certified steel are your barrels made out of? It would be interesting to see some of the material certs and the accompanying data.

Rice Colerain and Bobby Hoyt used 12 L 14 I think sometimes they use 12 L 15 Ed Rayl uses 8620 green barrels are 4140 it’s all published and you can even call them and ask them. But that’s the steel that my gun barrels are made out of. I’m not sure why this is such a surprise. It’s pretty well known. But in my original point, it’s just knowing what kind of steel knowing the fact just as cap and ball published the proof said they don’t know what kind of steel. The Indian barrel was made out of it probably would’ve helped in an analysis the Indian barrel exploded.

 

[TNGhost]

I know what kind of steel all of my gunbarrels are made of. Knowing is better than guessing a mystery steel, just my thought.

If you want to know what steel exactly is used int he Indian gun, go to one of their distributor's websites, they are very specific about it.

 

[FlinterNick]

Doesn’t matter if Nick actually makes his barrels, just interested in seeing barrel steel material certs. It’s information I would love to know going forward. I hate to repeat my own and other’s mistakes.

Actually, I am making my own screw barrel pistol barrels on my lathe out of 8620 and 12L14 stock. Getting some lessons from The Rifle Shoppe in the fall. Couple Queen Ann couple Scottish barrels. Scottish pistols are pretty popular these days. These will be for my own collection. I’ll send you some pictures when I get through the project.

 

[SDSmlf]

Rice Colerain and Bobby Hoyt used 12 L 14 I think sometimes they use 12 L 15 Ed Rayl uses 8620 green barrels are 4140 it’s all published and you can even call them and ask them. But that’s the steel that my gun barrels are made out of. I’m not sure why this is such a surprise. It’s pretty well known.

Ok, though there are a lot of concerns in some circles over use of 12L14 in barrels (and yep, I have quite a few).

I come from a manufacturing engineering background, and when I read someone knows what steel or material they are using, they have traceable material certs in hand, not just someone’s okie dokie. Pontificating is a polite description. Rock on, my mistake for engaging.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ok, though there are a lot of concerns in some circles over use of 12L14 in barrels (and yep, I have quite a few).

I come from a manufacturing engineering background, and when read someone knows what steel or material they are using, they have traceable material certs in hand, not just someone’s okie dokie. Pontificating is a polite description. Rock on, my mistake for engaging.

Well, I hope the steel is what I think it is because I paid for it. I was going to use 4140 but after I saw the price of the cutters I had to walk back that one. I too have had my concerns about using 12 L 14 especially on thin barrels, but I totally understand why it’s used you don’t need solid carbide cutters

 

[SDSmlf]

Any time I purchased or used a material in my manufacturing career, material certs were a given. Trust, but verify. Read up on number 40.

 

[FlinterNick]

If you want to know what steel exactly is used int he Indian gun, go to one of their distributor's websites, they are very specific about it.

That’s a bit more challenging than you would expect there’s a lot of sources with a lot of different information. I do know there are very reputable gun builders from India that do use high-quality steals, but the products are not cheap and I believe that they can’t sell beyond the borders of India, other than that, the only thing I can come across is whatever military heritage is quoted.
But it’s not so much the actual steel that concerned me the most it’s that they’re forged drawn over a mandrel by hand by two guys kneeling on a dirt floor with a hammer and anvil. I have seen people do that in seminars with wrought iron but wrought iron is very easy to work with. I just don’t the process using steel. It’s just very difficult to find in high grade. If the barrels were drilled from solid stock and not flanged breeched I’d have a lot more positives

 

[Clark Badgett]

Everyone has their opinion.
However, as the ONLY option maybe you should keep yours to yourself.

It’s not opinion when it’s based on fact. Maybe you need to learn that distinction.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Any time I purchased or used a material in my manufacturing career, material certs were a given. Trust, but verify. Read up on number 40.

It’s still that way. Deal with this every day.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Until someone comes in with a solid study of materials and fatigue and failure rates right down to the crystallization structure such materials then the questioning of comparing one to the other is peeing into a fan

Do you honestly think that has not already been done?

 

[Commodore Swab]

Actually, I am making my own screw barrel pistol barrels on my lathe out of 8620 and 12L14 stock. Getting some lessons from The Rifle Shoppe in the fall. Couple Queen Ann couple Scottish barrels.

Considering the breach on the QA is integrated with the lock plate which is why TRS and Blackley lost wax cast them I look forward to seeing how you make them on the lathe.

 

[tenngun]

Springs yes can break on any gun. But we are talking about solid steels.
forge a spring and it may last forever or not. Depends on so many variables
Just like barrels the same rules apply. How did they make it and what checkpoints were involved in its production..

AKA tensile strength

Don’t know, only know my springs work for years black smiths sword smiths watch makers all made steel by the seat of their pants. Smithies were kept dark so the smith could see the color.
Next time I cock my Indian the spring might break, but next time I cock either of my chambers or my Davis the spring might break. So far it’s worked well