Burst barrel

[akapennypincher]

I was a Volunteer Range Safety Officer for about 8 years at a Public Range North of Phoenix. I personally NEVER Witnessed a Muzzleloader go KABOOM, a term used for Guns that Blow up. Have seen sever Modern RIFLES GO KABOOM, including a M-1 Grand. All Kabooms were from RELOADS, NOT FACTORY AMMO.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'd be willing to bet that most frontloaders that burst are loaded with smokeless and most of the ones that aren't loaded with the wrong powder have some sort of barrel obstruction. Regardless of the gun's nation of origin.

 

[renovato]

I'd be willing to bet that most frontloaders that burst are loaded with smokeless and most of the ones that aren't loaded with the wrong powder have some sort of barrel obstruction. Regardless of the gun's nation of origin.

I think you're right about the smokeless. I remember chatting with a fellow at one of the gun shows I sell at. He was scared of muzzleloaders and said he'd never own one because "they blow up too easily". Apparently, his brother had managed to blow up several! I tried to inquire further and he didn't know the particulars, but from how he described the loads, I think the brother was using smokeless.

 

[torn moc]

Well now..
How many grains Black Powder = how many grains SMOKELESS?

ANSWER : NONE

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

There is a common phrase for a muzzle loader loaded with smokeless powder ...Pipe Bomb.
:thumbsup:

 

[pichou]

Hey! Izzat my club?

It's not a club, it's a forum.


:blah:

 

[James Kelly]

I have personally analyzed three muzzle loading rifles that burst from black powder. The first and third were made of 12L14 resulphurized,leaded steel with a phosphorus addition for great machinability, the second was some other free machining low carbon steel, disremember grade. The third involved a pipefitter who lost more than half of his hand. It happened that after the lawsuit was settled the barrel manufacturer in question ceased to advertise muzzle loading barrels. They had been in that business over two decades at the time. Although I suppose most muzzle loaders that blow do indeed burst from the use of smokeless, I personally can only speak of one. Cost the poor guy a hand and an eye to try five shots with Unique pistol powder. Not at all the fault of the mass produced rifle. The lawyer did not like what I had to say in my report. In the early 1980's I did see one Indian made brass-barreled blunderbuss from which the breechplug sailed past the guy's head, propelled by a 12ga empty shell used to measure the black gunpowder. Fine threads--very bad engineering to use fine threads with brass--and almost no thread engagement. Fortunately no injury.

 

[Oldnamvet]

And then there are the people who just did something really stupid. My grandfather (b. 1898) told me about when he was a poor kid in Greentop, MO and they made their own muzzleloaders. A piece of gas pipe with a wooden plug hammered and pinned in the end. A notch filed through for a touchhole. Pipe was then strapped to a homemade stock. When they spotted a rabbit in the briars, one kid would hold and aim the "gun" and the other would hold a match to the touch hole and .......boom. The load was gravel, small nails, whatever they got their hands on along with paper pages from an old catalog that escaped being used in the outhouse in back. They supplied their families with a lot of cottontail dinners this way. Only once did they have an accident. One kid was "shoddy" in his construction and didn't pin the breech plug. The wood plug blew out and took out all his front teeth. From then on, at the age of 12, he was known as toothless Jimmy. Grandpa found it surprising that they never killed each other with some of the things they did back in 1910. People haven't really changed much with some of the things we hear about.

 

I've been shooting for more years than some of you fellows have been taking deep breaths, and in all of that time I have heard all the same horror stories that we hear year after year. I can honestly say that I examined only one rifle in all that time that had a burst barrel. It had been short loaded with 2 balls and let go at the point that they were left. The bulges in the barrel were very evident in the bore. This poor soul lost most of his left hand when it all came out the bottom of the barrel and stock. This was "most definitly" driver error, as is usually the case.
Mark

 

[roundball]

Said to be caused by smokeless in this .54cal.
Perfect example of the main complaint against even the notion of introducing smokeless into the world of muzzleloading at all...it was predicted these things would happen after savage introduced smokeless and it obviously has...

 

[Parzifal]

Theres some guys here in Canada who are reloading their old black powder sa Colts with smokeless.

Whenever I hear of this I get worried aplenty.

Though when I say , ummm wasnt that gun origionally designed to use Black??

The reply I get is , well Im using slow burning smokeless or some such thing and then the usual speech about how many years they have been shooting etc....

Man does this growing practise scare me.

A black powder gun should never EVER be used with smokeless...Why try it at all? Because it may save you 5 minutes of cleaning..??

I figure if you want to shoot smokeless get yourself a modern arm, dont torture your old colts .

 

[paulvallandigham]

The better question to ask these guys is, " If I am right and you are wrong, can you replace that revolver? " I use very low pressure trap loads in a DB shotgun made back 100 years ago, that my Grandfather owned. I do so because the gun is old, the steel is old, and if I make it to that age, I would like to think people will be equally kind to me! :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

A black powder gun should never EVER be used with smokeless...Why try it at all? Because it may save you 5 minutes of cleaning..??
I figure if you want to shoot smokeless get yourself a modern arm, dont torture your old colts .

Yes, you're preachin' to the choir as they say...I don't get the point of anyone intentionally wanting to go backwards in technology, into a more traditional style of shooting/hunting, if they're just going to turn right around and try and modernize what they do...

 

[Frank/Pa]

I have only seem one barrel burst. It was a CVA
kentucky rifle my buddy was shooting. He had just finished the kit and was shooting on the line next to me when I felt something hit me on my left side and he was standing there with a burst barrel and shattered stock. No major injuries, just some powder burns. I think what hit me was pieces of the stock.

Well we took the CVA back to the Patch and Ball gunshop in San Diego. My friend Bill Bracken, who has since passed away, inspected the barrel and said the ball was probably not seated all the way down on the powder. Bill happily replaced the CVA Kentucky, no questions asked, and my buddy got back to shooting.

This was back in 1975. I suppose in today's world
there would have been a lawsuit against CVA, Bill Bracken, and his shop.

 

[brubincam]

-----until I messed up my shoulders--I used an old LC Smith double 12 ga. made in 1890 for trap and did very well against guys with trap guns-----

 

[Britsmoothy]

Paul, any time you want a cartridge ramming up your breech you only gotta ask :rotf: :rotf:

The bottom line is idiots are very resourceful!

Only kidding Paul, I ain't getting any place near your breech :shocked2:
:hatsoff:

Britsmoothy.

 

[tg]

"..I don't get the point of anyone intentionally wanting to go backwards in technology, into a more traditional style of shooting/hunting, if they're just going to turn right around and try and modernize what they do..."

That is one that has baffeled me for years with all the modern sights, bullets and everything else one can do to get the ML closer in performance and appearance to the modern centerfires, I guess I just don't get "it"

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I don't get it either. Even the choking of flintlock fowlers is a bit much. Using the old guns as they were used and working within their limitations is both challenging and fun. At least for some of us.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Its the microwave generation. They want everything instantly rather than the slow way through practice and the accumulation of knowledge. In the skeet world they are referred to as "trying to buy skill and targets" by getting the best gun with the best loads. But without practice, it is no help. So they switch and buy something even more expensive. With blackpowder, they want more range, more power, more accuracy, less cleaning, ...., and some even want less smoke. :youcrazy: So they start out thinking they want to shoot traditional and immediately start changing things so it is easier to shoot better faster. So when they show a target with a nice group on it, they say they shot it with their "Hawken rifle" neglecting to say they used a 209 shotgun primer, scope, sabot, synthetic stock, substitute powder pellets, and held it in a gun vise while shooting. I would bet we have all seen it. Sorry this is off-topic but I saw it again today at the range. :cursing: ff

 

[mr.fudd]

I don't get the point of anyone intentionally wanting to go backwards in technology, into a more traditional style of shooting/hunting, if they're just going to turn right around and try and modernize what they do...

I get it to some extent, and I even think it's kind of cool if it's just a handful of guys horsing around and doing something goofy like building a modern trebuchet. That's something where you've got serious enthusiasts just doing something for the fun of it. It might not be traditional, but folks are having fun and lots of people are probably learning something in the process. Heck, even a Savage 10 ML would be cool if it were just something someone built in his garage as a range toy.

The problem I have is when people decide to get into something just to take advantage of the hunting seasons and then try to take the utmost advantage of every loophole available. They're not really in it for the guns or the history or even the sport.