India Torador Matchlock Wall Gun

[cyten]

"Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour" by Lord Egerton of Tatton.
I believe it's available on Amazon, or as an e-book on Google Books.

Here is a free copy available to read online:

https://archive.org/details/dli.csl.8845/mode/1up

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I also listened this morning. Actually was more of what I thought it would be. Much agree with Larry and John's Posts above. It was OK. We all probably didn't expect too much in the way of our interests. But worth viewing.

No chance for getting a question to the Presenter or any time for a Q&A period?

 

[TobJohn]

No chance for getting a question to the Presenter or any time for a Q&A period?

It was too big picture focused for a specific gun question to have made sense.

 

[rickystl]

Often overlooked is the conept that elephants also served as watchdogs. Just like horses, they look in the direction of game or intruders, detected by their incredibly good hearing. If no enemy was heard, no alarm. Asked how the handlers knew, it was said to be...
yes... "ear-elephant".

Sorry.

LOL. Yea, they sort of used elephants like we used mules in North America.

 

[rickystl]

I should have the barrel cut in two and photos posted tomorrow. The barrel wall on this wall gun is very thick. LOL

Rick

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Rick,
Some of these appear to have a thinner barrel wall right at the breech, going by feel!

 

[rickystl]

Rick,
Some of these appear to have a thinner barrel wall right at the breech, going by feel!

You could be right. Well, we will soon know.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

OK. The barrel is now cut in two. The shorter rear section is about 17 inches long. That should be enough to show the transition to nominal bore size. Could maybe cut off another one inch. The front half of the barrel is still 48-inches long. Took me near an hour (for this 73 year old guy) to cut it with a hacksaw. The nominal barrel wall thickness is 1/4 inch !!! Obviously made for a heavy charge of powder. LOL
There is heavy rust/scale in the bore. I can easily make out the narrow section with a drop light. But can't make out the chamber. But by measurement, I know it's there. I didn't bother trying to clean out the bore in the short piece. Once it's spliced lengthwise it will be easy to clean. So, I'll get this boxed up and send to Flint early next week. Stay tuned ALL. LOL

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Buy a new hacksaw blade. You should have had that cut in 5 minutes taking your time……

 

[Sam squanch]

You know, I was thinking ( dangerous) and thought of those huge small arms models during WW2 of the garand, m1 carbine,ect , used to train unit armorers. May be you could do the same with your wall matchlock, put the cut breech section back in the stock, cut away part of the stock to show how the match holder works. The gun would still be together, and a total educational experience. I think I sense Rudyard flying over to hurt us both…..

 

[rickystl]

Buy a new hacksaw blade. You should have had that cut in 5 minutes taking your time……

Now Sam.....be nice. I'll start talking about Indian made or canoe guns. You don't know what I'm capable of. LOL !!!!
It WAS a new blade. But I kept getting phone interruptions. LOL But WOW!! That was some seriously thick barrel.
The front 4' of the barrel is still heavy. But it could be shortened further to use for a short, late 15th or early 16th Century matchlock Arquebus. It would look the part. LOL

Rick

 

[rickystl]

You know, I was thinking ( dangerous) and thought of those huge small arms models during WW2 of the garand, m1 carbine,ect , used to train unit armorers. May be you could do the same with your wall matchlock, put the cut breech section back in the stock, cut away part of the stock to show how the match holder works. The gun would still be together, and a total educational experience. I think I sense Rudyard flying over to hurt us both…..

That's another possibility. Both pieces of the barrel could be re-fitted to the stock for study. Good idea.

Rick

Good thing Rudyard's out of arms reach. But I'm prepared for a verbal thrashing.

 

[Rudyard]

This presentation I opposed earlier yesterday as its' Vandalism' we are about or should be about preserving Original pieces. My in put seemingly erased ! .An X ray probably tells all we need to know I would have to object to needless desicration. Useing up old floating barrels is quite different if ime to understand the sawing up of a large Jiepore fort wall gun. Cheap as it might have been is still unwarranted spoilation. What anyone does to a modern replica is no consequence but flippant regard for conservation ethics Is a whole other matter .I trust I make my point.
Rudyard

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

... let it go Rudy ...

 

[John May]

Hi Earl

The lesser grade of powder is one theory. I recall reading that the quality of black powder made by the locals was something akin to powder made during the hand gonne period. LOL If the powder was compressed too tight, it would not ignite reliably. Thus the air gap between the powder and ball to allow more oxygen.
Of course today we would consider this more of a bore obstruction. If you run an iron rod through the barrel it would travel through the narrow section into the powder chamber. But if you ran a wood dowel that's approximately bore size it would not travel past the beginning of the narrow section. That narrow section is "just" small enough to not let a correct size ball travel past it. The narrow section starts to taper larger as it enters the yet still large powder chamber. This is as I remember with the barrel of my other Torador before sending it to Bobby Hoyt to be re-worked. It was very much the same as the sketch-photo I posted above.

I remember Bobby calling me ref the breech asking me what the @#$%^&* is this ? LOL So I explained the theory. So Bobby, being the genius muzzle loading barrel smith he is, made a steel sleeve for the breech area that was carefully mated to the new steel liner in the bore. So now it became a typical smooth cylinder bore like any other musket.

Rick

I was told by an armourer at the Enfield armoury that they sometimes used old chopped up cine film as ‘powder’ in these muskets. Apparently cine film used to be made from a form of nitro-cellulose so it was fairly combustible. Whether this was true or not is debatable, but the guy did know his stuff so maybe…?

 

[TobJohn]

I was told by an armourer at the Enfield armoury that they sometimes used old chopped up cine film as ‘powder’ in these muskets. Apparently cine film used to be made from a form of nitro-cellulose so it was fairly combustible. Whether this was true or not is debatable, but the guy did know his stuff so maybe…?

Not sure how well it would work as powder but old film is extremely flammable and very hard to put out.

Film Preservation 101: Is Nitrate Film Really Dangerous?

 

[rickystl]

I was told by an armourer at the Enfield armoury that they sometimes used old chopped up cine film as ‘powder’ in these muskets. Apparently cine film used to be made from a form of nitro-cellulose so it was fairly combustible. Whether this was true or not is debatable, but the guy did know his stuff so maybe…?

Well it might shock us, but not surprise us if this was occasionally done. LOL Once the breech end of the barrel is spliced in two lengthwise, it will be easy to clean and inspect. But, while the red rust and corrosion is still dry, scrape some samples off and have it analyzed by a lab. Maybe that will give us another clue (?)

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Think I posted this a while back, but here it is again. Largest Wall Gun I've ever seen. Now you can make out the swollen breech on this one also.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Looks like the two man elephant hunting squad!

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

The old boy in the shooting position is sighting down the bbl.....finger on the trigger.....with the sharp toe of the buttstock stuck in his shoulder, should have several medics nearby to put what is left of his shoulder and cheek bone after the recoil spins him 360 degrees! The ole boy in front may need to have his jaw bone repositioned and ear ring removed from his cranium. ooooweeeeeeeee!

I wonder what is behind the green door, as the old song went....