Indian made flintlocks

[Dphar]

I've worked on several.
Some of my observations.
The metal is very soft.
The wood seems pretty hard.
I've had the breech plugs out of several, and the barrels I've examined have about 3 more threads than the breech plug.
On a couple I was able to unscrew the breechplug with my fingers without a wrench.
I've proofed several barrels and not had one fail.
I was given one (percussion).
I made it into a floor lamp!
SC45-70

Remember if you work on something and it later fails you become part of the liability chain. Maybe a BIG part. The basic rule is don't let junk in your shop. Once you do you "own it".
Unless you give it back to the owner disassembled so it can't fire. This usually angers them.

Dan

 

[sc45-70]

Did you proof the ones where you could "unscrew the breechplug with my fingers without a wrench"? They should let go pretty soon.

YES!
With the breech plug screwed in finger tight!
The barrel and breech plug did not fail!
I was able to unscrew the breechplug after proofing with my fingers!

I Do not work on guns of this type anymore.I did not do anything to make any of these funtional!
I just run the proof testing for people that did the job themselves.
I also told the owners that (IN MY OPINION) they are not safe to shoot and there is no way I would recommend using them for anything other than for what they were built for, A decoration!
SC45-70

 

[RBK]

Just to add my $0.02

At a gunshow in Knoxville a few months ago, there was a young man with one of the Indian Brown Bess muskets on the rack. I examined it closely.
The bore was eccentric....that is to say, it was not the same wall thickness around the barrel. I could discern this with naked eyeball.
The stock was well, crude as heck.
The flint wanted to strike the frizzin at the very very very top of the frizzen. I have never seen this type of thing. I imagined to myself...self, you can not possibly get this thing to fire with the flint hitting the very tip of the frizzen.........
oh well. When I asked the young man what his best price was, well, there were a few people gathering around me. [price tag indicated $500]. He stated $500 and that this gun was very scarce and, was worth over $1,000. The second he said that, I shook my head and told him something to the effect..."stop it, just stop it...not in my life, not in a million years" and walked off. Later in the show, an older dude told me that I did myself and others a favor by denouncing this thing as something great.

I was actually wanting one of these until I saw it and handled it in person. What a mistake that would have been.
P.S.---it would make a decent wall hanger for a much lesser price!

 

[Firelock937]

Foctris,
Bottom line is not all Indian made muskets are the same. It depends greatly on who you buy them from.
MVTC I know from experience puts out a good product. On the other hand I have seen junk from others. I haven't seen any from Loyalist Arms, but they do say they finish them in Cananda, maybe others who have actually dealt with them can comment.
Or join the crowd who will condemn any and all of them. It's your money. :stir:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Did you proof the ones where you could "unscrew the breechplug with my fingers without a wrench"? They should let go pretty soon.

YES!
With the breech plug screwed in finger tight!
The barrel and breech plug did not fail!
I was able to unscrew the breechplug after proofing with my fingers!

I Do not work on guns of this type anymore.I did not do anything to make any of these funtional!
I just run the proof testing for people that did the job themselves.
I also told the owners that (IN MY OPINION) they are not safe to shoot and there is no way I would recommend using them for anything other than for what they were built for, A decoration!
SC45-70

You did the right thing with your recommendation.

 

[ebiggs1]

If it is what I wanted, I would buy it and not worry what some of these guys think. (I have been tempted.) :hmm: The bias in the flintlock side is sometimes abundant. I would than make my own determination as to whether it is safe to shoot. But for now I will stick with “America's Gun Maker”. :grin:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

If one buys a new Indian made musket and then has to pay a qualified gunsmith to do such work as needed to make it a reliable and decent shooter their total investment would probably exceed the cost of a good used Pedersoli. I almost wrote "new Pedersoli" but then remembered Pedersoli muskets cost a lot more than my Blue Ridge rifle. :haha: But if one is a capable "tinkerer", willing and able to do some simple work for themselves, then they may be worth the price.
My only Indian gun is a 12 gauge percussion single I got from MVTC. They had obtained a small quantity of those which just didn't sell, so he put them on Gunbroker at half price. It was $250 IIRC, and at that price I thought I'd take a chance.
I replaced the musket size nipple with an AMPCO nipple for #11 caps after examining the threads and finding them OK.
I pulled the breechplug and found both male and female threads OK although the plug did not bottom out in the threads, there was an extra female thread or two. This didn't worry me as I have seen lots of similar pug fits and they seem safe enough, though I do see where corrosion could collect over time.
I found the bore had a double taper, smallest in the middle and tapering larger toward both ends.
I used a common adjustable reamer fitted into a piece of steel tube and turned with a Crescent wrench. I adjusted the reamer to just lightly cut the tightest portion, then withdrew it and enlarged it by about 1/8 turn of the adjusting nuts and reamed the tight section a bit more. Using lots of cutting oil I repeated that process until the reamer was cutting evenly all the way from the breech to within two inches from the muzzle. I stopped there to leave a bit of choke. I then cast a lead slug in the barrel on the end of a rod. I coated the slug with lapping compound and turned it with my cordless hand drill, continually working it in and out the length of the bore. After just a few minutes I pulled the lapping slug, cleaned the bore and was surprised to find a mirror polish.
The only work I did on the percussion lock was to make a new sear spring which would not support a truck. I now have a 6 1/4 pound percussion shotgun which will smoke clay birds like a trap gun for my $250 investment. I'm not delighted with the blond mystery wood and plastic finish but I'm not so turned off as to bother refinishing it, maybe a winter project?
For me it was worth it, remember I got it for half price, for you?