Indian Made P39? (Loyalist Arms)

[Smokey Plainsman]

With some talk going on now of the Indian-made muskets, I became curious so went to the Loyalist Arms page and came across their repro of the British P39 .76 caliber percussion musket:

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1839tower.htm

I really like the looks of it, and it’s only $499 USD. From the product page above it states: Proofing and loading data is supplied with these muskets.
These guns carry a 6 month warranty on all moving parts, and a 1 year warranty on springs.

So apparantly they are proofed? That warranty is not bad either! For the price, I am EXTREMELY tempted to pick one up as I lack a smoothbore and would love to test ball and shot in it, maybe even hunt game with it.

Thoughts? Thanks gun buddies!

-Smokey

 

[arcticap]

Melnic addressed the proofing issue in post #9 of this thread:--->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/indian-muskets.113841/#post-1553222

"...Veteran arms ships the gun with instructions.
Loyalist will ship with a ball and a fuse so you can do your own proofing after removing the barrel."

However I'm not sure if this information only pertains to the flintlock models or not.

 

[tenngun]

Although you could do a test it’s not ‘proofed’. That’s a government activity via a ‘proofing house’.
I’m not of the opinion that over stressing a barrel several times means it’s safe. I can invision a scenario where that overstressed metal that stood x charge can now fail with a normal charge.

 

[Carbon 6]

Although you could do a test it’s not ‘proofed’. That’s a government activity via a ‘proofing house’.
I’m not of the opinion that over stressing a barrel several times means it’s safe. I can invision a scenario where that overstressed metal that stood x charge can now fail with a normal charge.

Agree 100%

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So apparantly they are proofed?

Nope, Tenngun nailed it..., they provide data for you to do what I like to call a "home test", which is you provide the powder, and the seller often provides a single projectile and a short length of cannon-fuse, so that you can light the fuse and move to a safer location.

IF you want to really test the barrel, you can measure the outside with calipers. Then choose a max load, exceed it, and test fire the barrel. If you see no bulges, remeasure it with the calipers, and if not bulged, then have it magnafluxed to check for cracking. That won't give you a pressure reading as to what actual pressure the barrel sustained, but it will demonstrate that that the barrel successfully held that charge of powder and lead. Not cheap but much more thorough than lighting off a charge, and, "gee it looks ok to me".

Will it hold that charge in the future? Probably.
Does it guarantee that ill use and lack of cleaning won't degrade the barrel to a point where you will have problem in the future? No way to tell.

I had to help do that with a 2-pound galloper cannon barrel many years ago, and it passed without problems. We actually were in more danger of dropping the barrel on us, or getting a rupture, but that's another story.

LD

 

[arcticap]

Although you could do a test it’s not ‘proofed’. That’s a government activity via a ‘proofing house’.

I tend to disagree with the above statement.
I think that you're only referring to proof testing as it's commonly done by CIP member states where it's required for consumer firearms sales that results with a "proof mark".
It seems that many countries have their own standards and so do some manufacturers.
But there are other standards of professional organizations besides government entities that can "proof test" items.
For instance, there's SAAMI proof testing that gives different results than CIP proof testing. [See proof test differences]
And there are different products that are proof tested besides firearms which I believe can be done independent of a government.--->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_test

 

[Stantheman86]

For a little more you can get an ArmiSport .69 1842 smooth bore, and those are made to a higher standard than the rest of Armi Sports line because these are heavily used in competition

 

[arcticap]

For a little more you can get an ArmiSport .69 1842 smooth bore, and those are made to a higher standard than the rest of Armi Sports line because these are heavily used in competition

Fall Creek Suttlery sells it for ~$940 without shipping. Dixie sells it for $950.
That's almost double the price of the Loyalist Model P39.
I realize that walnut stocks aren't cheap, but it still only has a .69 bore.

 

[Bo T]

Heck, buy one and let us know about the proofing instructions and how it shoots. If I understand the proofing protocol correctly, you wouldn't need to dismount the barrel to run the proof shot through it. Although you might risk breaking the stock. Maybe a lot of padding behind it, and around it to protect the stock while you touched off the charge from a safe distance. There are others with more knowledge who might comment on this.

 

[Melnic]

Instructions with my Loyalist arms said to remove barrel and then make a proofing jig. Proofing in the stock and hard mounting the stock can damage it.