Indian Pattern Brown Bess from Henry K UK?

[Sunbeam]

Hi,

Henry Krank in the UK sell a few Indian Pattern Brown Bess flintlock muskets for between £385 and £490.

I asked if they were a good gun and they said in some cases they are better than Pedersoli.

Does anybody know anything about these guns HK sell?

Thanks.

 

[cositrike]

Hi,

Henry Krank in the UK sell a few Indian Pattern Brown Bess flintlock muskets for between £385 and £490.

I asked if they were a good gun and they said in some cases they are better than Pedersoli.

Does anybody know anything about these guns HK sell?

Thanks.

Indian built guns, similar to those available in the USA. Good or bad? Well, there have been a few threads on that subject!

 

[Sunbeam]

So in regards to the specific question about the Henry K muskets, how did people feel about those guns?

 

[cositrike]

So in regards to the specific question about the Henry K muskets, how did people feel about those guns?

Ok. Nowhere near as good as Pedersoli. Generally ok for reenactment, but don’t look much like original Bess’s. P.s look at the threads regarding Indian built guns on this site and you will see what people think of them in the US. These are the same guns that Kranj sells. You only have to look at the pictures and descriptions

 

[Sunbeam]

OK, thank you.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Henry Krank Website has this:

"The Indian reproduction Brown Bess offers exceptional fun for the price. It has its shortcomings, but I feel they are nothing other than what one would experience with any Brown Bess. The fit and finish on the Indian guns is not equal to a Pedersoli, but at a third the price, I can find that very easy to forgive.

On targets, the Indian Brown Bess performs well with the right size ball and charge. It isn’t a precision tool, and you are unlikely to be winning many competitions with it, but I imagine if you are considering buying a Brown Bess of any description, you have already made your peace with this."

This pretty much sums up the situation.

LD

 

[Griz44Mag]

Indian built guns, similar to those available in the USA. Good or bad? Well, there have been a few threads on that subject!

Very tastefully done answer..... (The battle rages on)

 

[Sunbeam]

OK, I'll change my search words to UK specific Henry Krank guns.
So by all accounts, I'll find lots of threads covering this exact question regarding UK sold guns through Henry Krank.
Thanks

 

[cositrike]

T

OK, I'll change my search words to UK specific Henry Krank guns.
So by all accounts, I'll find lots of threads covering this exact question regarding UK sold guns through Henry Krank.
Thanks

hey are the same guns as sold in the US, so US threads are relevant. You won’t find many threads on Henry Krank guns per se, as this is mainly a US driven site. If you only want to discuss with UK based individuals, you’ll have to find a UK based site

 

[Zonie]

Well, you won't find anything about Henry Krank guns on the Muzzleloading forum but you will find a ton of stuff debating the pro's and con's about the guns made in India. Just click on the Search label at the top of the screen, put the word India into the Search box and then poke the "More" button. Clear the check marks for the forums where the search will be done. Then, click on the Smoothbore forum and poke the Search button.
There will be dozens of "hits" to choose from.

 

[TFoley]

Henry Krank is a major player in replica and genuine antique firearms here in UK, based in Yorkshire, about three hours north of me and off to one side. He is not a person, but a long-established company - read -

Henry Krank & Company Ltd has been well-known in the UK gun trade for over 40 years. However, it wasn’t always known by the same distinctive name. In the beginning, the company was run under the name of John Longstaff who was based in Armley, Leeds.

As the business grew, Longstaff relocated to Pudsey, Leeds in the 1960s. By the early 1970s there were two members of staff working for the company who are still an integral part of the team today.

The memorable name of Henry Krank came into existence as a by-product of a search through the telephone book one day; proof that you know a good thing when you see it.

Zoran Nikacevic took ownership of the company in 1985. An avid shooter from a young age, Zoran started out by running a gun repair and firearms business in the Bradford area. Also a keen collector of antiques, he remembers purchasing his first antique in the early 1960s – a pistol without a hammer that he had to make himself. This passion for antiques has never dissipated. Thanks to Zoran’s knowledge, Henry Krank is highly regarded for its incredible variety of antiques ranging from cannons and suits of armour to flintlock pistols and wheelock rifles.

Zoran is an active member of the UK Gun Trade Association, which represents the sporting, recreational and professional gun trade. Since 1998 he has sat on the Council as a board member, helping to promote and protect the industry.

In 2002 Henry Krank became the UK’s only importer of Prvi Partisan (PPU), reloading components and ammunition. Over time Henry Krank has become invaluable to the gun trade, offering unique products found nowhere else in the UK such as Pedersoli, Uberti, Pietta and Ardesa.

For many years, the company has operated as a family business, with Nikacevic’s two daughters joining the close-knit team. Working together, they have established Henry Krank as the country’s go-to specialists on muzzle loading, black powder, reloading, ammunition and modern guns.

The company’s online presence has grown to satisfy an ever-increasing demand from individual enthusiasts to gun clubs and trade. With a combined knowledge of the industry spanning several decades, the team at Henry Krank & Company delivers a wealth of information on everything for shooters and collectors.

So, basically, the Indian-made guns that YOU get are exactly the same as the Indian-made guns that WE get.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The India made guns are the same as available in the USA except the guns sold by Henry Krank are likely to have passed British Proof tests and have current proof stamps.

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure the guns sold by HK do have proof marks, if they have vent (touch) holes drilled thru the barrel wall.
Most, if not all of the muzzleloading guns exported from India do not have vent holes.

The basic reason for this is, India has very strict rules with lots of paperwork and payments for any working firearm a company wishes to export. The fact that the Indian made guns being made for export do not have vent holes and cannot be fired gets around the import laws of importing them into country's that restrict or forbid importing firearms.

The guns that are being imported into Canada for instance do not have vent holes when they are received. The company's that are selling working, shootable Indian muzzleloaders in Canada and the USA have drilled the vents after receiving them.

Being in Great Britain, if HK has drilled the vent holes, the guns would have to be proof tested before they could be sold.

 

[TFoley]

Being in Great Britain, if HK has drilled the vent holes, the guns would have to be proof tested before they could be sold.

All foreign-made firearms that come into UK for sale to the public, IF they are not made in any of the fourteen CIP-compliant countries, MUST, by law, be subject to UK Proof at either London or Birmingham Proof Houses. India is NOT a CIP-compliant manufacturing nation, so their guns, if sold for shooting, must comply.

Incidentally, the USA is not a signaturee either, so all US-made firearms of any kind have to be Proofed before they can be sold in ANY of the CIP countries.

The guns are clearly marked with stamps of Proof, hopefully where they are not TOO noticeable - this has been the case in the few examples that I've seen here, mostly Baker rifles for Sharpe's 95th re-enactment.

 

[Sunbeam]

I had a conversation with HK yesterday on the phone and they wouldn't tell me what indian maker supplies them with their stock, other than to say it is the best indian maker.

They told me all their live muskets are proofed in the UK.

They also told me that the fit and finish of the indian long arms they sell are functional, but not as nice as other more expensive guns. They also told me that they have given up try ing to get spares when needed for these indian guns as they are very hard to get and very rarely fit if they get them! Also the wood used in the Indian guns is very random and will be anything they have to hand when making stocks (all hard wood though!)

Apparently they carry plenty of stock, but they would only bring two or maybe three to shop for me to inspect before buying. So I concluded that buying an Indian BB at £385 and shoe horning a Pedersoli lock into it maybe they way to go with a final price of £585. This was agreed by the shop assistant if I had the skill to do the work, due to the fact that Pedersoli was reliable in both function and spares.

However, I have just bought a brand new Pedersoli Hawken from HK this year from a newly imported batch and I must say the quality is awful! The woodwork is the worst I've ever seen on any gun at any price point (including a £125 C02 pistol !!) and I had to re-crown it before shooting as there was a MASSIVE burr on the inside of the crown as if the crowning had been done with a blunt countersink!!

I have concluded now after the phone call that I'm not going down the indian 'rabit hole' at all now for a few reasons!

P.S, HK are a 5 hour trip for me, so 10 hours in total not including the normal motorway jams every 1/2 mile !!

 

[cositrike]

I had a conversation with HK yesterday on the phone and they wouldn't tell me what indian maker supplies them with their stock, other than to say it is the best indian maker.

They told me all their live muskets are proofed in the UK.

They also told me that the fit and finish of the indian long arms they sell are functional, but not as nice as other more expensive guns. They also told me that they have given up try ing to get spares when needed for these indian guns as they are very hard to get and very rarely fit if they get them! Also the wood used in the Indian guns is very random and will be anything they have to hand when making stocks (all hard wood though!)

Apparently they carry plenty of stock, but they would only bring two or maybe three to shop for me to inspect before buying. So I concluded that buying an Indian BB at £385 and shoe horning a Pedersoli lock into it maybe they way to go with a final price of £585. This was agreed by the shop assistant if I had the skill to do the work, due to the fact that Pedersoli was reliable in both function and spares.

However, I have just bought a brand new Pedersoli Hawken from HK this year from a newly imported batch and I must say the quality is awful! The woodwork is the worst I've ever seen on any gun at any price point (including a £125 C02 pistol !!) and I had to re-crown it before shooting as there was a MASSIVE burr on the inside of the crown as if the crowning had been done with a blunt countersink!!

I have concluded now after the phone call that I'm not going down the indian 'rabit hole' at all now for a few reasons!

P.S, HK are a 5 hour trip for me, so 10 hours in total not including the normal motorway jams every 1/2 mile !!

I would go with Britsmoothys Bess, if he’s selling. Should be a good gun and likely a reasonable price

 

[Sunbeam]

I am interested, but can't find the PM button on this forum.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I am interested, but can't find the PM button on this forum.

I think you have restricted you profile page so much that you can not send and receive private messages. You need to fix that so I can give you contact details.
I'm about half the distance from Krank's for you.
You can see my Bess by checking my hunting stories of you wish.
The lock is super reliable and would most likely spark with a piece of house brick fitted! It is not a dog of a gun but is not as new.
Anyway, before I get in trouble with zonie again I need a PM from you buddy.

B.

 

[Zonie]

In case others are also having problems with getting their "Conversations" (the forum's name for private messages), I'll give a brief description of how to fix it.

Hold your cursor over the little man image in the upper right area of the forum screen.
That will open a little window showing various areas of your "home".
Find the one that says, "Contact Details", third from the top in the left hand column.
Clicking on "Contact Details" will open a new window showing your home settings.
In the "Messaging Preferences" area make sure both the "Receive site mailings" and the "Accept conversations from" boxes have a check mark in them.
Right below the "Accept conversations from" line make sure the box says, "Members only".

Once this is done, your home is set up to receive private messages from our members.
To see private messages you have received, look at the little envelope in the upper right hand area of the forum screen.
If it has a red number in it, that signifies you have a message (or more than one).
To see the message, hold your cursor over the envelope. That will open a little window giving you the option of clicking on the message to read it, or at the bottom there is a choice of "Show all" which opens up a window listing all of the messages you have received or sent.

 

[muzzlejrt]

I am currently going through this debate with myself... I am currently building a Baker Rifle and am actively looking for a Bess. Kranks look appealing due to price and I don't doubt the safety of theirs (as they have been proofed) but there's just something putting me off them and I think it is the fear of still spending that much on something that ccould be junk...