Information on period weapons...

[cjmouser]

I am in the process of constructing a novel based in Florida in the mid-eighteen hundreds--during the third and final uprising of the Seminole Indians under the leadership of Billy Bowlegs. Living in the area and being familiar with much of the history, the material is flowing very well. However, I know that the early settlers of Florida had firearms, but many of the details related to even modern day firearms taxes me beyond my female limits.

If you were living in this time period, (1852-1855) could you describe to me what type of rifle and handgun you might own and how you would go about using them? I have been informed that there were many choices. Could you please choose one of each (pistol and rifle) and tell me why you would prefer it over the others and as many details of these weapons as possible. And please put it in "dumb woman" (simple language) if at all possible.

Know that the character that will be using these weapons is an early Florida cattleman with few financial resources. In other words, he would not own the "best of the best", but probably somthing that had been given to him by his father, which means that you can go farther back to an earlier weapon if you choose--or maybe a period military weapon that he found or traded....?

Any details such as the loading process, the weight and length of the weapon, how it felt and sounded to shoot it if known, the accuracy, and the origin of the weapon, the age of the weapon, and so on. I would be tickled to death if any of you could recreate a hunting excursion or armed conflict of some type, using these weapons in your reply.

I appreciate in advance any information you might be able to provide. Also any photo links of the weapons you describe would be awesome.

Thanks eace:

C.J. (Cindi) Mouser

 

[2172]

Cindi, you're bound to get a lot of answers, and they'll vary, because there are a number of potential answers. My daughter is a novelist, so I'll offer my little bit of help.
There were two kinds of ignition systems common at the time. The older flintlock was being replaced by the percussion cap. In the first, a bit of flint is held in the jaws of what you'd call a "hammer" and which was called a "cock"..it moves forward when the trigger is pulled and strikes a "frizzen" (old name "hammer"...confusing, I know) which causes a spark to fall into a waiting tray, called a "pan"..gunpowder in the pan ignites, and the flash travels through a tiny hole in the barrel to ignite the gunpowder in the main charge and drive the bullet out of the barrel. In a percussion lock, the hammer falls on a copper cap that contains fulminate of mercury and which is sitting on a nipple..the blow ignites the charge in the cap, and it travels through the nipple into the barrel to the main charge. A quick trip to a museum should show you examples of both of these...shucks, most CrackerBarrel restaurants have a percussion gun hung over the fireplace...
Both are loaded the same way...a measured charge of powder is poured down the barrel, then a patched round ball, that is, a round lead ball, is placed over a piece of fabric at the muzzle, pushed it until it is flush with the muzzle, and then the fabric is cut off...the ball and patch are then driven down the barrel by the ramrod, the stick that is carried under the barrel...some of the long guns were rifled, some were smoothbore, some of the smoothbore were used with a load of bb-like shot, or a solid ball, the rifled ones were almost all solid shot only ......if your character carried a pistol, it'd most likely be single shot, although Col. Colt had been pushing revolvers since about 1836...they were expensive and not common...there were other multiple fire pistols, but again, not common....hope this helps, Hank

 

[Holley]

I do not know if you know about this other group....but they are die-hard Southeastern time period Re-enactors. They can get down to the cloth dye in a shirt of that time period. If you do not get your answers here....try there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoutheasternCulture/

 

[Rebel]

)Quote)If you were living in this time period, (1852-1855) could you describe to me what type of rifle and handgun you might own and how you would go about using them? (Quote)

I think the only ones here that might have been living during that time period would be Musketman and "ol RollingB. ::
:sorry: couldn't resist.

 

[Musketeer]

Hey, Cindi. Welcome to the Forum. If you could give us more details of your character, it would help. We know he's a Florida cattleman in the mid-1800's, but how old is he? Has he ever served in the military? Where did his family come from? Are they native Southerners, or are they transplanted Yankees? All of these factors could have a significant effect on what type of firearms your character would be using. Being a man of modest means definitely narrows down the field a bit, but we still need more specific details. By the way, I think you've come to the right place to do your research. You'll find a wealth of information here. There are some VERY knowledgable folks on the Forum. A final word: DO NOT FOR ANY REASON RELY UPON HOLLYWOOD FOR YOUR INFORMATION REGARDING HISTORIC FIREARMS!!! :shocking:Seriously! :: We await further details. :thumbsup:

 

I think the only ones here that might have been living during that time period would be Musketman and "ol RollingB. ::
:sorry: couldn't resist.

WELLLLL!!.... It jest so happens thet I did live in tha Florida swamps back in 1853 (used all tha "high" ground fer "pasture" :, and I well recollect what gun I favored fer shoot'n wild hogs and other "2 legged and 4 legged critters".
It was my Model 1841 U.S. Percussion Rifle, thet thing was made at Harpers Ferry in 1848 and cost me "2 mules".
The 1841 shot a .54 calibur bullet out of a 33" barrel. After the Mississippi Regiment unner Jeffy Davis "stomped tha tar" out'a them Mexicans (dur'n tha Mexican War) this rifle was later refered to as tha "Mississippi Rifle" and was quite popular.

My pistol was a "Spalding & Fisher Double Barrel Pistol", thet thing was a percussion .36 calibur with double barrels but only had one trigger and no ramrod.
I never could "hit sqwat" with thet liddle pea-shooter, but I often found it handy to carry in my coat pocket,.... 'sides whenever I went hunt'n fer "sqwat", I always carried tha "Mississippi Rifle"!!

Musketman lived in a mansion on tha hill 'bove "my place" and was constantly jabber'n 'bout his old "Brown Bess" flint-musket and how it could do "everthin" he asked it to, so he didn't need no (in his words) "new fangled contraption" like I had.

Anybuddy know if'n Musketman still lives in thet "mansion" on tha hill???? (I got tired'a swat'n gators 'way from m'chicken-house and moved ta Wyomin 'cause'a tha "higher ground".)

YMHS
rollingb

 

[cjmouser]

Hank, thank you for the details on the different umm...well, you know what you said up there. (smile) Believe it or not, it did shed a lot of light on the whole thing.

Tipis, I will check that out, thank you very much!

Rebel...okay...if you HAD been living in this time period...(grin)

Musketeer....the character's name is Gideon Polk. He is 33 years old and is from Texas, originally, but moved his wife and young child to the central Florida area, settling near what is now Payne's Creek, east and south of what was then... and still is, Tampa.

He relocated in the spring of 1847 to escape the Mexican-American War. He had also heard that the Seminole Indians had been officially subdued and would not be a problem. Which was true until Billy Bowlegs was provoked by a colonel by the name of Harney with the US surveying corps, starting the third and final conflict in 1855.

Rollingb...thank you for that great scenario...I will be doing some research on Model 1841 U.S. Percussion Rifle...but just out of curiosity...how can it be a model 1841 if it was made in 1848? Did they continue making the 1841 at that later date? Thanks.

 

The Model 1841 was made at Harpers Ferry 1846-1855,

25,296 were made in those 9 years, with "various contractors" make'n another 45,000 in the same time-frame.

Rifles in those days were more likely designated by a "model" accord'n to "features" of the firearm,.... rather then the "year", the firearm actually went into production.

The Model 1842, is basicaly the same rifle as the Model 1841,.... the "difference is the caliburs.

BTW,... The Model 1842, was in production the "same years" as the Model 1841.

Confused yet?????????.... (I am, and I wrote this :haha

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Musketeer]

.but just out of curiosity...how can it be a model 1841 if it was made in 1848? Did they continue making the 1841 at that later date? Thanks.

Yes. Many military firearms were given a model number based upon their original year of production. They kept the name until they were discontinued. An example would be the Model 1795 Springfield musket. This gun was produced from 1795 through 1814 by Springfield Armory in Springfield, Mass., but was always called the Model 1795. I don't want to confuse the situation any more than necessary :shocking:BUT...When the British sent their troops here during the American Revolution, they carried a large .75 caliber (that's 3/4") flintlock musket nicknamed the "Brown Bess". Nobody knows for sure how the nickname came about (there are many theories). There were several models of this musket over the years, but the two that were used in the Rev. War were the "Long Land Musket" and the "Short Land Musket". They have become known as the "1st Model" and the "2nd Model", respectively, though I believe these are more modern names.
Still not confused? Good. The "Short Land" differed in that it had a 42" barrel, whereas the "Long Land had a 46" barrel. Anyhow, after the Revolutionary War ended, the Mexican government ended up with thousands of surplus Long and Short Land muskets, courtesy of the British government, who was earger to sell them off to pay for newer guns. Mexican soldiers used these guns either in their original flintlock form or having been converted to percussion locks well into the 1850's, perphaps beyond. So, if your guy lived in Texas during the 1840's, it is quite possible that he could have traded somedody for a mid to late 1700's era "Brown Bess" taken off of a dead Mexican soldier. Border clashes must have been fairly common in Texas at that time, between both Mexican and American soldiers and civilians alike. I favor this possibility because: a) the timeframe is right. b) the story is perfectly believable. c) the Brown Bess (regardless of model) was a strudy and versatile gun. It had a smooth bore (no rifling in the barrel (rifling is a series of spiral grooves cut into the interior surface of a gun barrel which impart a spin to the projectile upon firing, giving greater accuracy) which would allow the gun to fire both a solid ball AND smaller "shot" pellets. Kind of like having a short range rifle AND shotgun all in one. For a man of modest means who asks alot of his weapon, it would have been hard to beat the durability, versatility, and low cost of a Bess musket. You'll likely get TONS of different responses, and you'll have to pick the one(s) you like, but this would be a good bet as far as historic accuracy/believability: A "Long Land" or "Short Land" British "Brown Bess" musket, possibly converted to percussion by/for the Mexican govt. sometime in the early 1800's, that was taken from a slain Mexican soldier. For more details/specs/photos, go here: http://www.militaryheritage.com/ for a good start. Also, peruse the Forum, as there are many, many threads here concerning the Brown Bess in all it's incarnations. Whew!!! :shocking: I'll have to take a rest before I get started on the possible handguns your guy could have used! I'm gettin' writer's cramp! :: :thumbsup:

P.S. As you can see, you've opened up a mighty big can o' worms here, but don't worry, most of us here on the Forum LIVE for this kinda stuff! Don't ever hesitate to ask a question, or to ask for clarification of a point, etc. Many of us log onto the Forum every day, as well, so most of our correspondence occurs very quickly. This isn't one of those groups where you post a question and wait two weeks for an answer! Take advantage of us, abuse us, question us like an Inquisitor, whatever! We can take! :: This is the most patient, generous, knowlegable, and friendly online group I've ever belonged to, and we're always willing to help anyone who wants to know anything about blackpowder guns/shooting for any reason! Watch out for my evil twin, Musketman, though. He can get mighty ornery! :: :crackup: :crackup: :thumbsup:

P.P.S. The majority of Santa Ana's soldiers who attacked the Alamo in Texas in 1836 were armed with surplus Brown Bess muskets. I believe he had one special rifle company who used the British "Baker" rifle, but that's a whole other story! :: :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

1841 Musket

Now I'll offer my twist. The 1841 was still state of the art military issue in 1855 and a farmer wouldn't have one unless he had military connections. Now, something like an 1817 flintlock smoothbore, converted to percussion (a little metal cap) would be more what a run-of-the-mill farmer might hold. The smoothbore would allow him to load shot for birds (or barn raiders in the dark) and he could also load a combination ball with three or six much smaller balls. This nasty load was called "buck-and-ball" and was a very lethal close range (out to 50 yards) proposition.

Marked "E" - a 1812 Springfield (.69 cal smoothbore)

Another good choice would be an 1816 U.S. Musket converted to percussion. These were .69 caliber smoothbore. Can shoot a single round ball with a cloth patch, or shot with wads.

1816 Musket - converted to percussion

These were produced from 1816 to 1844, and enough survived to be commonly used in the Civil War.

.69 caliber, 42-inch round barrel, marked at breech P over CF; front sight on rear strap of front barrel band; aperture on top of muzzle to secure attachment of angular bayonet; tail of lock marked vertically, TRYON/PHILADA; Star of Texas over TEXAS stamped forward of hammer; oil-finished stock, customary marking on left side opposite lock, of V over GF in an oval cartouche, not visible. A special contract for 560 Model 1816 muskets, from the Republic of Texas, with George Tryon & Son, was signed November 1, 1839. The guns arrived in Galveston, Texas, in February of 1840. Due to the satisfaction of Texas with these muskets, another ordered was entered into, this time for 940 muskets. These were delivered first in a lot of 300, again to Galveston, by September 8, 1841. The balance of 640 were shipped to L.V. Libeau, agent for Tryon in New Orleans, for trans-delivery to Galveston. Whether these guns were delivered to the Republic of Texas, or were paid for and accepted by the U.S. (following annexation of Texas) has yet to be determined. Guns with a Texas association, particularly in this period - before statehood - are of considerable historical interest. Condition: Very good; with brown and gray patina to steel parts, with pitting; stock with repairs to butt and nicks, dents and mars; dirt in ramrod channel prevents proper seating of steel ramrod. Unconverted. Literature: George D. Moller, American Military Shoulder Arms, volume II, pp. 436-437.

The above is documentation that 1816 muskets would have been available in Texas at the proper time, and even "missing", and so potentially sold to people like . . . cattleman/farmers.

Then there are just plain shotguns, called "fowlers" that would have likely been a farmer's weapon. More lightly built than a musket (which has to be a club and pike when a bayonet is attached).

Now if you really want to "WOW" the readers, in the multi-gun image the one marked "D" is an 1819 Hall rifle. It has a block assembly that is removeable - and can be fired like a pistol! It is a .52 cal flintlock, but would be a unique choice. They were used in Texas.


Hall - converted to percussion!

 

DO NOT FOR ANY REASON RELY UPON HOLLYWOOD FOR YOUR INFORMATION REGARDING HISTORIC FIREARMS!!![/b] :shocking:Seriously! :: We await further details. :thumbsup:

Hey, if I didn't rely on Hollywood, I never would have learned that silk patches give you not only an extra 40 yards, but give the ability to hit a running target at 400 yards in the dark!

 

Hey, if I didn't rely on Hollywood, I never would have learned that silk patches give you not only an extra 40 yards, but give the ability to hit a running target at 400 yards in the dark!

Ain't thet tha truth!!!!........ In fact silk is tha "patch of choice" fer us blind folks. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Zonie]

CJMouser: The boys are funnin again!
For Gods sake, don't put anything in your book about using Silk patches around the ball when loading the gun.
The old hands here know when a inside joke is being launched, but someone new to muzzleloading might not see the humor.

The precussion cap style rifles started becomeing popular in the 1830s but Flintlocks were the common gun.
By the 1840s the majority of the Flintlocks were being converted to Precussion lock guns.
This continued thru the 1850s so, if one of your charactors is a poor dirt farmer, or an indian he would most likely still be using a Flintlock.
If he were middle or upper class, he would have a precussion lock gun.
The military in this period started converting to Precussion with the 1842 Springfield musket and by the 1850s, most (if not all) of the military rifles/muskets were Precussion style guns.

Colt started selling his revolver in 1836 but sales were not great. Although his most popular pistol in the 1850s was the 1851 6 shot revolver often called the Navy (because of a navel battle engraved on the cylinder) it still was not common.
Most pistols would have been single shot precussion pistols. :imo:

 

[Birdwatcher]

cj... In my short time on these boards I have been promoting Smithwick ad naseum... but for a good account of contemporary life in Texas (1827-'61) see Noah Smithwick's memoirs online at...
http://www.oldcardboard.com/lsj/olbooks/smithwic/otd.htm

I'm not the equal of folks here when it comes to being a Historian, but I might take issue with your character necessarily being armed with a musket. Smithwick in his accounts comes across as credible, and almost invariably refers to himself and his companions being armed with rifles, speaking disparagingly of muskets. For example in his account of the aftermath of San Jacinto, of the surplus Brown Bess muskets of the Mexican Army...

(Chap 9: "The arms and ammunition captured were brought into camp. No one wanted the muskets, so they were stacked; and, as the cartridges wouldn't fit our guns, they were thrown into a heap. By some means fire got among them and there was a stampede, such as they never could have created shot from muskets in the hands of Mexicans. "Pop!" "Fizz!" "Bang!" The enemy was charging every point of the compass! The air was full of bursting shells! The proud victors of San Jacinto dropped their guns and fled. Trees were at a premium. The rout was complete. The blind enemy held possession of the camp until the last cartridge was exhausted."

...and in Chap 12 referring to an episode in his Rangering days...:

...One or more shots taking effect, the panther assumed the offensive. We had a green fellow along, Butler by name. Not being able to handle a rifle, we armed him with a musket. Anxious to distinguish himself he dismounted and started into the jungle on foot to "beard the lion in his den." Just then the enraged beast came into view from my position, making straight for Butler, its hair turned the wrong way, its tail erect, and eyes like balls of fire.
"Look out, Butler, he's coming!" I shouted. Just then Butler caught sight of the panther. "The Jesus!" he cried, "look at his eyes!" And dropping his musket he crashed through the brush and prickly pears, regaining the open just as the infuriated animal made a spring for him. Fortunately the panther was so crippled that his spring was rendered ineffectual, and before he could collect himself for another I shot him dead. It took Butler some time to get rid of the cactus needles, and he never got rid of the joke while he remained in the service.

On the other hand, referring to the ubiquity of rifles, he writes of attending a wedding celebration (Chap 11)...

"There was a bountiful feast, the table remaining spread and the coffee pot kept boiling all night, those who chose repairing to the dining room for refreshments at any time. We literally, "danced all night to broad daylight and went home with the girls in the morning," the unsafe condition of the country rendering such escort absolutely indispensable. We didn't neglect to take our rifles along either."

Smithwick, among other things, was a professional gunsmith so likely he knew his firearms. Note too that the various shorter-barrelled smoothbore firearms intended for horseback use, in Military issue referred to as "Musketoons", were found to be unsatisfactory in use on the Texas Frontier.

Seems like every account of early Texas makes reference to the population both bearing arms and being well-versed in their use. I would submit that your transplanted Texas cattleman, though poor, would be well aquainted with the use of arms and their characteristics and would arm himself with a much-cherished rifle if at all possible. By the 1850's those 1840's era Mississippi rifles Rollingb mentioned were in use on the Texas Plains both by Texas Rangers and their Indian allies but I dunno how common they were in Florida. Certainly they wouldn't have been in Texas before the Mexican War, when your character left the State.

With respect to handguns, it is at least distantly possible that your character might have had an early Patterson Colt revolver, especially if he had seen service with the frontier Ranging companies. However the mechanism of the Patterson was fragile and difficult to maintain, not likely to work for him for very long. Smithwick himself states that "handguns were scarce in Texas in those days" a number of times in his account. Texas Rangers on the late '40's and early '50's were commonly armed with old, single-shot smoothbore pistols (as well as their rifles)due to the scarcity and expense of revolvers. Eye-witness accounts refer to rangers with as many as eight of these old pistols being stowed about their gear.

On the other hand, Frederick Law Olmstead, travelling through the State in 1857 found that by that date, Colt's 1851 cal. 36 "Navy" revolvers were very common. Likely revolvers were likewise appearing in Florida in numbers by the end of the '50's.

The gist being, if your character owned a pistol at all, it would likely be an old smoothbore horse pistol until perhaps the very end of your timeline.

Smithwick ought to be an excellent source for the "average" guy of your period, albeit in Texas rather than Florida, with many details of the mundane. He did keep cattle, but mentions only a couple of episodes in connection with that trade. What he does recount at length is a couple of real-world altercations of that period involving firearms where he was involved, here against a pair of runaway slaves in 1860 (Chap 25)...

My dwelling, which stood near the edge of a narrow strip of table land between the river and the hills, was headquarters for a number of the mill hands. One night, just after dark, my dogs ran to the edge of the hill barking furiously at something below... It was, perhaps, an hour later that a bright light like a campfire was noticed a mile or so above in the river bottom... we someway hit upon the theory that they must be runaway negroes, which were not desirable additions to the neighborhood...
A party of five of us then sallied forth, another having remained in the vicinity of the camp to watch the movements of the occupants, who were seen to be negro men... Tiger promptly took the trail and bounded away with the rest of the pack at his heels; we hurried on and directly heard the dogs baying and then a shot. In a few minutes the dogs came back, Tiger bleeding from a shot through the skin under the throat. This put a serious aspect on the affair; we had not counted on armed resistance.
The sight of my wounded favorite aroused my wrath and what had before been a mere frolic now became a personal matter. Tiger, who was not seriously hurt, was also apparently eager for revenge, but to guard him against further injury I tied one of the ropes we had brought along to secure our contemplated prisoners with around his neck so as to keep him in hand. Finding him hard to manage I handed my trusty rifle to one of the boys, taking an old-fashioned horse pistol in exchange. The delay had given the fugitives a chance to reload and get away. The river being up prevented escape in that direction. A little way on we came upon a horse which they had stolen on Hickory creek: the animal had bogged in crossing a little creek and, there being no time to waste, his captors abandoned him. The negroes then took to the higher ground. By some accident favorable to the fugitives our party became separated, three of them carrying rifles getting off on the trail with the dogs, leaving me, armed with the old pistol, and two others with only small pocket pistols. For some reason the negroes doubled on their track and came back in full view of our position. We intercepted them and demanded an unconditional surrender, the only reply being the presentation of a rifle in the hands of a powerful black fellow. Thinking that he meant business, I threw up my pistol and without waiting to take sight, blazed away. There was a deafening report and something "drapped," but it wasn't the darkey. I sprang to my feet, the blood streaming from a wound just above my right eye; my right hand was also badly torn and bleeding, and my weapon nowhere to be seen. I comprehended the situation at once. The old pistol had been so heavily charged that when I pulled the trigger it flew into fragments, the butt of it taking me just above the eye. My blood was now thoroughly up, and thinking that the negro had fired simultaneously with myself I snatched a pistol from one of my companions and called to them to charge while his gun was empty. I discharged my piece without apparent effect, the only remaining shot was then a small pocket pistol in the hands of Billy Kay.
"Charge on him, Billy," I commanded. Billy charged and received a bullet in the groin. The negro had reserved his fire. By this time the other boys came up, but the negroes had gotten the best of the fight and were off...
The neighborhood was aroused and the country scoured in vain. Several days later the fugitives were heard from over on Sandy, where they held up Jim Hamilton and made him give them directions for reaching Mexico. We subsequently learned that the negroes had escaped from the lower part of the state. They were never recaptured, though one or two other parties attempted it. I hope they reached Mexico in safety. That big fellow deserved to; he certainly was as brave a man as I ever met. Singlehanded - his companion being unarmed - he had whipped six white men, all armed, and as many fierce dogs. That was unquestionably the worst fight I ever got into. I think now, looking back over a life of ninety years, that that was about the meanest thing I ever did.

Hope this helps,
Birdwatcher

 

[cjmouser]

Hope this helps? Good Lord! I came to the right place I think.

I'm a little pressed for time, so when I come back in the morning I am going to compress this information and choose a rifle only. Then, if you good gentlemen will, you can teach me all there is to know about it, if you don't mind. I really appreciate all the effort you have put into trying to help me.

Sincerely

C J Mouser

 

[Birdwatcher]

cj... if your character's father was an American immigrant to Texas, it is entirely plausible that he would bring a flintlock longrifle with him, especially if he himself was from Frontier stock.

As the soft iron barrels on rifles of that era wore out, it was common to have them "freshened", that is bored out to a larger caliber. There are numerous surviving rifles that were bored-out this way at some point, and a great many were converted to percussion as your character's rifle almost certainly would have been at some point if it were his primary arm.

Smithwick relates meeting Crockett going to the Alamo, and Crockett trading off his percussion longrifle for a flintlock rifle, probably because percussion caps were not yet readily available in Texas. Smithwick himself implies he was carrying a flintlock as late as about 1842, when he relates "checking the priming" on his rifle before taking out after Comanche horse thieves.

Your character was living through a period of transition. To put things in perspective, if I recall correctly regular US troops in the Mexican War were still armed with .69 caliber flintlock smoothbore muskets. Some troops carried the then brand new and revolutionary Mississippi Rifles (brainchild of Jefferson Davis), these using percussion caps and a firing a .54 caliber ball. Some Rangers in that conflict were famously armed with a few surviving .36 cal five-shot Patterson Colt revolvers, as well as the brand-new .44 cal Walker Colt.

A few of the first Patterson Colt revolvers too had been carried by Officers in the earlier Seminole Wars, so while your character probably didn't own one, common folk would certainly know that revolvers existed.

Lewis and Clark were ahead of their times when they had the barels of their contract rifles cut down in length way back in 1803. The rifles still being made back East in the early Nineteenth Century were often long, with a barrel 40" or more in length. As the century progressed shorter rifles became more common, especially for those expected to be carried on horseback, your archtypical Western rifle during the period of your novel having a barrel about 35" or less and being relatively larger bored, .50 caliber or greater.

I would arm your hero with his father's old longrifle, cut down and bored out to .54 caliber, perhaps converted to percussion at the same time in a comprehensive refit before starting out for Florida. Near as I can tell, he would still be carrying his loose power in a horn.

Surplus horse smoothbore pistols do seem to crop up commonly in civilian hands by the late 1840's. If this guy has/gets a family is it perfectly possible he might aquire either a pistol or an old musket, flint or percussion, to leave at home with his wife and, in the case of the musket, to keep around as a multi-purpose firearm.

In addition to his rifle, he would have almost certainly carried a much-used (in cooking and such, not necessarily combat) single-edged butcher type knife, I'm guessing probably with a 7" to 10" blade. Large knives were commonly carried in unsettled regions in the Nineteenth Century. Smithwick himself refers to a man's life being saved by his "Bowie knife" when he was hit by a musket ball during the original battle to take San Antonio, the ball striking the blade of the knife worn on the man's belt in front of his abdomen.

Of course Smithwick was relating this sixty years after fact, I dunno when the term "Bowie knife" came into vogue or if your character would refer to his own knife as a "Bowie" or not

Just my opinion, and others around here know more than I.

Like someone wrote on this thread, us history afficionados LIVE for discussions like this, feel free to ask more questions as your novel progresses ::

Birdwatcher

 

[cjmouser]

Okay, is there any reason why we can't use this one? It says it was mfctd in 1819 and transformed to percussion in 1860. Putting it in the hands of the main character, would make the gun roughly thirty-five years old in the time frame of the story line.

Is it possible to say that it was transformed to percussion in the late 40's instead, or would that have been too early? It doesn't say if it's smooth or rifle bore, can we assume that it's smooth bore? Will history support these details?


link to weapon photos

 

[Birdwatcher]

I would respectfully disagree with Stumpkiller about the Hall, even though Hall's carbines were in use prior to the Mexican War and some had made their way to Texas prior to that. In the Hall design the front of the breechblock lifted upwards and was loaded like a muzzleloader, the breech block then being pivoted down in line with the barrel again.

The problem was an undue amount of leakage of fired gases between the breechblock and barrel, immediately in front of the shooter's face, a problem which only worsened with use. Certainly a thirty-year old much-used Hall would likely be very unpleasant to fire. This on the Hall from http://www.snipersparadise.com/history/sharps.htm

The Halls were easier to load, especially when finding one's self in a difficult position. Loading a gun from the breech was much easier than doing so from the muzzle, especially while lying on the ground. Moreover this relaxed method of loading was also beneficial when on horse back. Fumbling with powder charges was next to impossible while in the saddle. Breech-loading also reduced the risk of overloading an arm which was a common mistake in the panic of a combat situation.
Although these arms were a great step forward, they were not very well liked by the troops. First off soldiers were generally conservative and attached to their muzzle-loading arms. Even in 1862, Chief of Ordnance General Ripley still preferred the rifle musket over breech-loaders for infantry. However, the largest grudge against Hall's creation was its loss of gas. This resulted from the fact that the block was not tightly locked upon the barrel in firing position, and therefore allowed an abundant amount of gas to escape between the chamber and barrel. Although largely a Mexican War Era arm, the Model 1833 and 43 Hall, saw considerable use by the cavalry in the Civil War particularly, in 1861 and 1862. Most Yankees considered them to be worthless because in addition to the tendency to burst, spew flaming powder as well as hot gas, they did not carry well and were quick to fall into disrepair. The Confederates found a suitable use for Halls by salvaging many of their parts from the Harpers Ferry Arsenal fire. The enterprising Southerners also modified some of Halls arms into muzzle loaders.

Note that the Hall, as the first US breech-loading firearm produced en masse by then state-of-the-art techniques, could have revolutionized the US firearms scene... if it had worked. On the other hand innovations which DID have merit, like the revolver and later on the lever action, have become the stuff of legend.

In the above quote note too the kiss of death as far as your character is concerned... "they did not carry well and were quick to fall into disrepair". In short, no one likely carried a Hall for many years and then handed it off to his son.

I think the real limitation is that the plotline of your character leaving Texas by 1847 and carrying his father's old rifle all but presupposes a private gunsmith-made rifle as opposed to a military-surplus arm. On the other hand, by the mid 1850's your character could very well have aquired one of those Model 1841 or '42 Mississippi rifles, by then justifiably popular on the frontier. He just didn't get it from his dad, is all.

Birdwatcher

 

Birdwatcher,.... I agree, and see'ns how ther were so many more Model 1841's and 1842's made compared to Hall's "conversions", I should think the "Mississipi rifle" to be much more likely to be found in a young farmer/rancher's hands in the 1850's-1860's.

YMHS
rollingb

 

[robinghewitt]

A rifle is kind of a specialised tool, a farmer would more likely go for a shotgun. The gun markets are full of American CW rifles that were taken home, reamed out to 16 gauge and turned into half stocks.