Is a Fiberglass Ramrod Really Bad For a Muzzle-Loader?

[Grenadier1758]

When I started out, I knew that I needed a good working rod to use at the range and to save the wooden rod that came with my T/C Hawken. No internet to ask questions that long ago. My best research seemed to indicate that a fiberglass offered the stiffness and resistance to breakage that would make a good range rod. The outer surface was quite smooth. I did get the brass funnel muzzle protector as I felt that having the rod centered in the bore and away from the metal at the muzzle. At first the muzzle protector would stay on the rod, stopped by the jag. At the end of three months, the muzzle protector was falling off when I withdrew the range rod. I then got a stainless steel rod for cleaning and loading.

Guess which muzzle protector was used for three months with a fiberglass ramrod and which muzzle protector has been used for 25 years with a brass range rod. Both started out with a 3/8" diameter hole for the rod.

No fiberglass ramrods for me even with shrink tubing applied. The safety is more than adequately addressed by the strength of my brass or steel range rods. Yes, all have muzzle protectors except for the steel rod in my Brown Bess.

Back in May 2018 I posted the above. The abrasiveness of fiberglass may have been reduced since I bought my fiberglass ramrod. I will continue to use my brass working rods and keep the above picture to remind me why I don't want to use fiberglass.

 

[Bo T]

Speaking of, anyone know where to find a good hickory rammer?

They make hickory shafted golf clubs. They might have a source of good wood available.
If you don't mind hanging out at the golf course...…...although you might have to glue a couple together to make a ramrod.

 

[Carbon 6]

Hey Black Hand no problem, I shoot flintlocks also plus I have one that is left-handed, we can shoot side by side and worry the other folks.

Black Hand on the left, Juice Jaws on the right.

Funny.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I took a look at my range rod again today. I at first said it was delrin. Now I'm thinking its nylon. I have a home made nylon palm saver, and the material is exactly the same. The range rod is whippy as heck, but on a straight push down the bore, its very strong.

 

[54ball]

Noting previous discussions, many state that it is difficult to find good hickory ramrods. That combined with the inherent variability between wood rods, lead me to conclude that they will have a higher failure rate than, i.e. Delrin. Hardly an irrational fear for those that don't have access to good hickory ramrods or the ability to correctly measure their worth.

However, for those that know and can grade wood the failure rate will decline.​

I do not mean this sarcastically.

River Cane can be used as a ramrod if the properties and capabilities of the material are taken into consideration. There is actually documentation of cane being used in emergencies. (Bakeless Boone bio 1935..likely based on the Draper Papers)

Is river cane ideal? Should it be considered as suitable ramrod material?

No, absolutely not.

What I'm getting at is; no matter what the material that a rammer is made from, the properties and capabilities of that material dictate how it is used. This goes for steel, fiberglass, wood or plastic.

Another factor...
Modern muzzleloading in general is polluted with misinformation. The reason for that is simple.

There are many disciplines of traditional blackpowder shooting with all their specific procedures and doctrines. These doctrines tend to bleed over, mix and become part of the General Doctrine of blackpowder shooting, a General Doctrine that never really existed.

For instance this is what we get from...

19th Century match shooting...

Thin patching...(measuring of patching material)
False muzzles and (short) starters...
Super tight loads...
super tight ball
Range Rammers...(some of these range guns had no ramrod)
Mallets...

Military Training...

Primarily Smoothbore and rifled Muskets...
Loose loads for rapid fire...
Undersized ball...
paper cartridges for rapid fire (and wadding)
Cartridge boxes for quick access...
Iron Rammers for rapid loading (slinging the rod down the bore ) remember three shots per minute minimal..
The rammer, box and cartridge (with loose undersized ball or shot) was a system for rapid fire...

18th and 19th Century hunting and every day (real world) use...

Lower charges...
Thicker patching of linen, buckskin, cotton fabric, sometimes maybe fine wool cloth
Grease or spit..
Smaller sized ball...Early US military riflemen used a double pouch with 2 sized ball, loose ball and under size ball in cartridges for rapid fire. The larger close to bore size ball was used for more accurate shooting.
Smoothbore...
Bare ball and natural fiber wadding, paper wadding, wasp nest wadding and sometimes leaves such as palmetto.
wooden ram rods on both rifle and smooth bore, some being quite trim...

Quite a few original antique guns and rifles ( have seen them in person) appear to have the original or at least a contemporary to their period of use wooden ramrod. These guns and the rod as well show heavy use. Forestock "pommel wear" where the ramrod is exposed because the stock has worn away.....pipes, entry and ramrod pipes nearly worn through...
It take years of constant use to wear a gun like that and the rammers hang in there.

Sam Dale a frontier scout says in 1813..."I had a rifle gun, good for a hundred yards."

Period rifle loadings with wooden rods were "not as tight". They did not have to be. They were not trying for 1/2 groups at 100 yards.

Hunting was different as well. Since there was always the possibility of running into armed men whose intentions may be hostile...the rifle needed to be fairly quick to load, even fouled. What good is rifle that shoots 1/2' groups if it's impossible to load after the 2nd shot?

Game...Lore has the solitary hunter vs the wilderness. Sometimes this may be true but it's more lore than anything. By far most "long hunts" were groups of men with hounds. If the rifle ball did not kill the game, the hounds did or at least bayed the quarry. Crockett shooting 50 bears a season with a .40 caliber rifle...Yeah..but it was short range with the bear treed by 15 hounds. Shooting the treed bear was like shootin a hog. (likely with the same rifle used at hawg killin time)

Using a wooden rammer on a rifle loaded like a Creedmore match rifle is asking for trouble.

Trying to use a wooden rammer, slinging it down the bore like military musket is asking for trouble.

Wooden ramrods were not intended to load super tight match loads nor were they intended to be slung around and pumped like musket rammers.

If we were not interested in the historical aspects of these arms, we would all be shooting ARs, Aks or at least Model 70s.

Someone can use whatever rammer/ ramrod they wish. Good for them in their choice. They all have their uses. What I do not like are fears, misinformation and horror stories being used to justify one's choice at the expense of truth.

Sure many have been injured with wooden rods. They were using them incorrectly ie beyond their capabilities.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Funny.

Funny.

Watch it you will be in that box with Black Hand

 

[Juice Jaws]

Black Hand on the left, Juice Jaws on the right.

Good one

 

[Carbon 6]

Watch it you will be in that box with Black Hand

I was laughing at Bo T's comment, yours was for context.
The vision in my head of dueling flash holes is slapstick funny.

 

[Hawgeye]

Dueling flash holes. Ah yes. First organized shoot with my local club many years back. Lined up to the right of a nice "seasoned" gentleman with an old Chambers colonial rifle. Drilled touch hole. He politely called "flintlock" and I naturally turned to see where. Yup, face full of smoke, fire, hot embers. I was shooting a caplock. No duel, more like bringing a knife to a gun fight. On a plus note, the mosquitos didn't bother me the rest of the day, and I now know not to look when I hear flintlock. Ramrods? Broke the brass ends off of two. Never snapped one or did any damage to myself.

 

[Rockvillerich]

The only downside to fiberglass that I've heard of is of in-bedded dirt turning the rod into a three foot long rasp.
Keeping the cleaning rod off the crown is what we need to avoid. A coned bushing in the bore and a polished stainless rod are ideal for limiting wear when cleaning.

 

[MiddleJohn]

I took a look at my range rod again today. I at first said it was delrin. Now I'm thinking its nylon. I have a home made nylon palm saver, and the material is exactly the same. The range rod is whippy as heck, but on a straight push down the bore, its very strong.

So I bought a used very early T/C flintlock that came with a black "plastic" ramrod.
Would this be delrin or nylon? How can I tell? I assume it's not fiberglass, doesn't look like any of my fishing rods.

Did T/C hawkins always come with wood.

 

[tenngun]

My wooden ramrod cleans my gun spic and span, using rag or tow. I’ve not needed a brush.

 

[arcticap]

So I bought a used very early T/C flintlock that came with a black "plastic" ramrod.
Would this be delrin or nylon? How can I tell? I assume it's not fiberglass, doesn't look like any of my fishing rods.

Did T/C hawkins always come with wood.

If it's a replacement ramrod, one can't be sure because TC, CVA and other after market companies made "universal" replacements some of which
were and still are made of fiberglass.
Some TC's are now made from aluminum, but I don't know what the older universal TC's were made from since they're long discontinued.
A person would need to know the part number to try to look it up which is difficult without the packaging.
They're generally made to be cut down to the correct length, so perhaps the only way to tell is to take a closer look at the core or
the exterior material and evaluate.

 

[Livbucks]

So I bought a used very early T/C flintlock that came with a black "plastic" ramrod.
Would this be delrin or nylon? How can I tell? I assume it's not fiberglass, doesn't look like any of my fishing rods.

Did T/C hawkins always come with wood.

I believe the Hawkins did come with wood. Every one I see has wood. Most likely the wooden one either broke or got so chewed up that it was replaced. Now is it Delrin? Take the rod and hold it by one end. Whip it back and forth. If it bows very easily it is Delrin. If it doesnt bow much at all it is probably fiberglass.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Another factor to consider with wooden ram rods, there are really good straight grain hickory or ash and there is worse than manure. Just because it is hardwood, does not mean it is straight grain, as flexible as hickory or ash or that it isn't soft and capable of eroding away easily. My local Lowes has poplar dowels and oak dowels. Neither are really suitable in the long run as ram rods. At the Eastern about 12 years ago, two sutlers had crappy poplar ram rods for sale. Poplar has a fair tensile strength but wears from the side very easily. So just because it is wood, does not make a decent ram rod. Further with several production guns, cheap parts meant ram rods that are really to thin to serve the caliber of the gun. Look at the CVA and Traditions Kentucky pistols. The ram rods are barely suitable for use. With the narrow diameter and the size of the pin through the ends, the wood is extremely weak. It isn't that fear of the wooden ram rod is irrational. it is more a poor choice of wood, which may or may not be the users fault.

 

[hinamanra]

My T/C Hawkin came with a wooden ramrod which I shot across a field trying to get a second shot at a deer in 1980. I got a replacement, I'm sure it wasn't fiberglass and I don't remember who made it but it looked just like wood, wood grain and all and was really stiff, I don't remember what ever happened to that rod, I'm back to hickory. Last night I was searching the web for something like that for a new to me .32 rifle and found these Grade LE Phenolic Rods at United States Plastic Corp (USP), they are a hard dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of natural linen fabric and epoxy, looks just like that rod from back when. I prefer Hickory rods and that's what I use with the rest of my flintlocks but when I was looking for a .32 rifle, every time I talk to someone about one the first thing they say is you'll snap rods and they foul quick. The 5/16"x 48" is $12.16 ea so I'll try it.

 

[Carbon 6]

My local Lowes has poplar dowels and oak dowels. Neither are really suitable in the long run as ram rods



Look at the CVA and Traditions Kentucky pistols. The ram rods are barely suitable for use. With the narrow diameter and the size of the pin through the ends, the wood is extremely weak. It isn't that fear of the wooden ram rod is irrational. it is more a poor choice of wood, which may or may not be the users fault.

I currently have an oak dowel on one of my guns and it is working nicely, I did however carefully inspect it. I went through an entire bin to find 4 that were suitable. In my opinion a Bow stresses an arrow shaft far more than muzzleloader stresses a ramrod. Select your ramrods as if they were arrows.
"Save a ramrod, use a ball starter."

I agree that just because CVA and some others put crappy wooden ramrods on their guns, that's no reason to fear wooden ramrods outright. Only crappy ones on those guns.

 

[Black Hand]

"Save a ramrod, use a ball starter."

I haven't used a starter in over 15 years and haven't missed it either...

 

[Carbon 6]

I haven't used a starter in over 15 years and haven't missed it either...

That was meant for novices and those afraid of wood. Not someone as experienced as yourself.
I use a starter as a default because of the wide array of firearms I shoot. Not all of them like to be loaded without one, but not all of them require one either.

For those looking for a good laugh at my expense, I have broken a ball starter before.

 

[Black Hand]

Got it.
I still have the first (and only) starter I made...