Is it uncool to use Pyrodex?

[Stantheman86]

What part of a ML'er would be the firearm then if this new classification applies? Europe uses the barrel, and the US uses the action (in cartridge guns), or breech block in the case of break-action guns.

It will /would be a nightmare because some muzzleloaders have easily detached "breeches", or you can buy a muzzleloading barrel with no breech plug, is it even a "barrel" at this point if it can't even be loaded?

Is the breech plug the "firearm"?

They wouldn't be able to regulate muzzleloaders, it's currently legal to manufacture a muzzleloader so technically a guy with a full machine shop can crank out smoothbore muskets all day long legally

 

[Col. Batguano]

I agree. This is one of those "stay tuned" moments.

A barrel is really just a pipe made out of more pressure resistant metal, and threaded on one end (most of the time). In the case of cast cannons, there is no threading.

I think the more they try to go down the road of trying to regulate and reclassify single shot ML'ers as firearms, the stickier the wicket will become, and they'll end up abandoning it. With revolvers however, because they more closely resemble modern arms the path may be easier.

In most if not all states, a guy can build any (non full auto, or suppressor, or non destructive device) firearm he wants for his own private purposes (without a manufacturing license). It's transferring the ownership that becomes trickier.

With guns made before 1968 and no serial number, (quite a number of manufacturers made them--they were typically more inexpensive guns) that too is a state by state thing. NJ and HI are typically the most restrictive states for things like this, but there are others that are close too.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

They wouldn't be able to regulate muzzleloaders, it's currently legal to manufacture a muzzleloader so technically a guy with a full machine shop can crank out smoothbore muskets all day long legally

Legality is not really an issue for gun-grabbers/government representatives. They can and have historically ignored "inconvenient" laws when it suited their purposes. Hawaii was illegally annexed in 1893 and their kingdom overthrown. The gun control in that state is STILL draconian by the standards of any other US state save possibly California and New York. Can't have them "savages" shootin' no Haoles, can y' now? They might actually declare independence and reinstall their monarchy.

I'm sad to see that the GG's have now set tentative sights on us.

 

[Stantheman86]

I agree. This is one of those "stay tuned" moments.

A barrel is really just a pipe made out of more pressure resistant metal, and threaded on one end (most of the time). In the case of cast cannons, there is no threading.

I think the more they try to go down the road of trying to regulate and reclassify single shot ML'ers as firearms, the stickier the wicket will become, and they'll end up abandoning it. With revolvers however, because they more closely resemble modern arms the path may be easier.

In most if not all states, a guy can build any (non full auto, or suppressor, or non destructive device) firearm he wants for his own private purposes (without a manufacturing license). It's transferring the ownership that becomes trickier.

With guns made before 1968 and no serial number, (quite a number of manufacturers made them--they were typically more inexpensive guns) that too is a state my state thing. NJ and HI are typically the most restrictive states for things like this, but there are others that are close too.

We have the "1898 and Before" law which lets us pretty much buy and sell antique firearms the same as muzzleloaders.

Also, I'm a C&R License holder so even though I have rarely used it, I keep renewing it because it may let me be "grandfathered" in if they really tighten up or stop issuing them .

I could see something like that happening , where modern reproduction percussion revolvers will be classed as "handguns" because like you said, they very closely resemble cartridge revolvers , and the conversion cylinders were always a double edged sword in my opinion, as let there be one shooting or a robbery with a "converted" cap and baller and , heeeere we go with the new restrictions.

Most states, even NJ when I lived there, were and are pretty blase about "long guns", I used to just pull out my NJ FOID card and buy rifles over the counter, in some cases several at a time at gun shows when I collected bolt action rifles. Handguns required jumping through 20 hoops.

I really don't want any more legislation and I don't think any of us does. But I don't think they'll attempt the massive drain of man hours and enforcement that would come with trying to regulate muzzleloading long guns and paper cartridge breech loaders. There's just too many already out there , and given that probably .00001% of all gun crime in recent history has been with muzzleloading long guns it would be a diminishing return. I mean we love our muzzleloaders but really, a skilled guy with a compound bow would be more of a threat than a guy with an 1861 Springfield at 100 yards.

 

[TDM]

I would avoid applying any rational reasoning for what may/will happen next.

 

[Stantheman86]

We can't even say for certain we won't be involved in WWIII by 2024 let alone what laws will be passed

 

[TDM]

Yes, sad, but true.

 

[Eutycus]

This thread opened with a question didn't it? Nope!

 

[William Lincoln]

Pyrodex has slightly more energy than standard BP. We all prefer the real tradition
of Black Powder--but lately we have witnessed the scarcity of Black powder at times.
It is wisdom to buy what you can get. A selection of powders is the best idea. As was
said, they will all push a ball down the bore. There is a certain excitement about
shooting these old guns, that should not be dampered by the fact that black powder
is not always ready on the shelf. Pyrodex is usually available to fill in the black powder
void- and it does a fair job as a stand-in for scarce times.

 

[user 55555]

Since Real Black powder is getting harder to find, use what you can get.

as for the new 4473, I am sure it is meant for the 80% AR kit crowd.
will some states, cities and dealers add "Traditions" type ML kits to the mix? probebly.
but we can deal with that when it happens.

 

[dave951]

Guys, take a completely factual view here. Yes, there is a dip in the supply of real black powder. Humans, many of which have herd animal tendencies, panicked and started buying up everything they saw and the end result is that dip became a shortage. Couple that with all the rest of the herd engaging in Chicken Little behavior scurrying around shouting about the "shortage" that is really just a dip in the supple and presto, we have a real shortage that gets worse and is slow to recover. It's like the start of Covid and all the people rushing around buying up toilet paper, tissues and paper towels. Remember the gougers offering a roll of TP for $5? It's the exact same thing.

So if you want to use Pdex, bless yer heart, shoot it and enjoy. Is it uncool? No, I don't think so, but I won't use it. I'll get into making the real deal before that happens.

 

[French Colonial]

Guys, take a completely factual view here. Yes, there is a dip in the supply of real black powder. Humans, many of which have herd animal tendencies, panicked and started buying up everything they saw and the end result is that dip became a shortage. Couple that with all the rest of the herd engaging in Chicken Little behavior scurrying around shouting about the "shortage" that is really just a dip in the supple and presto, we have a real shortage that gets worse and is slow to recover. It's like the start of Covid and all the people rushing around buying up toilet paper, tissues and paper towels. Remember the gougers offering a roll of TP for $5? It's the exact same thing.

So if you want to use Pdex, bless yer heart, shoot it and enjoy. Is it uncool? No, I don't think so, but I won't use it. I'll get into making the real deal before that happens.

AND!

You can still get BP from online suppliers, maybe not your favorite brand or granulation but it is out there. Grafs, Powderinc.
Yes it costs more than it used to, so what, name something that doesn't including smokeless.

I have never shot any BP substitutes of any kind, not that it is bad, never saw the need.

 

[TDM]

I was looking at Powder Inc's selection yesterday. All things considered, I thought their prices were pretty good.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

A .48"? really? Is it an original? That's not a caliber that the contemporary barrel makers make as a stock item, though for enough money you can get people to make you pretty much anything you want (except younger).

A .490 will not go down the barrel. I can use a .475 RB with a 12 thous ticking patch. This rifle was made in the early 80's and maybe was made to mimic Davy Crockett's 48 caliber rifle he carried.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Urban Coyote]

I first shot Pyrodex when it hit the shelves back in the late 70's, before Dan Pawlak went up in smoke. As I recall it was promoted as providing more shots per pound and fouled less. Certainly it is safer to store and ship but I'd question whether, at that time, it saved a lot of stores that relied on it to stock thier shelves as blackpowder could be found in most gun stores back then. The first BP I bought cost me $2/lb, I remember as I took a bus downtown to Seattle's once famous Warshall's Sporting Goods advertising the sale price.

I don't recall magnum percussion caps back then, Remington seemed the most available at about a buck a tin. Ignition was fairly reliable provided one compressed the powder when loading. This being said ignition with Pyrodex wasn't as reliable as BP then, nor is it today without benefit of a hot cap or 209 type primer although I've not experienced any ignition issues when using musket caps.

I recently shot a fresh batch of Pyrodex Select and some RS I've had in storage for well over 20 years. I don't own a chronograph but at 50 yards loading volume for volume BP alongside Pyrodex my shots with the substitute printed lower, not enough to miss a broadside shot on deer sized game. Standard caps produced hangfires, so did magnum but not near as many, CCI was the brand. I figure to use my remaining Pyrodex in one of my muskets.

If all I could get my hands on were Pyrodex I'd shoot it unashamedly but my preference will always be BP.

Is it uncool to shoot Pyrodex? I don't think so, "Dance with the girl you brought" (or bought, in this case)

 

[vince-m]

I use it, I like it, and I plan to keep using it. People should learn that we have free choice ,,,,,,,,,
use what you like.............

 

[user 53891]

15 pages!!!! REALLY, REALLY????!!! Use it or don't use it.....who cares!! Let us move on!

 

[TDM]

15 pages!!!! REALLY, REALLY????!!! Use it or don't use it.....who cares!! Let us move on!

Yes, I would like to see a thread on favorite patch lubes!!!

 

[user 53891]

Yes, I would like to see a thread on favorite patch lubes!!!

Frontier's Anti-Rust & Patch Lube.....https://www.bs-bp.com/regularlube.html

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

If you HAVE to, use it.

If you don’t, don’t.

You’ll be better off with real holy.