Is the Recently-Discovered Beckwourth Rifle the One Jim Is Holding in His Portrait?

[Songwriter]

Someone can double check my numbers. I was needing to get off the computer and go eat breakfast, so did not review my measurements/ math.

 

[Spillikins]

 

[Mulebrain]

ATSG

Ain't The Same Gun

I am sure the owner wants it to be the same, I know I would too

 

[Graybeard2A]

Several years ago, a rifle came to light that the owner believes once belonged to James Beckwourth, the mountain man. This rifle has been discussed several times on this and other forums, and Muzzleloader magazine had a nice full-page write-up in their May/June 2015 issue. The information they showed has been expanded, and is accessible on a webpage sponsored by that publication. You can view it here: The James Beckwourth Rifle

Here is a full-length photo of the rifle from that webpage:

View attachment 252035

For purposes of discussion, I'll refer to that as the "rifle photo."

They also show a portrait of Beckwourth himself, holding a long rifle:

View attachment 252036

For this discussion, I'll call that "the Beckwourth photo."

My question for you is, do you think the rifles shown in the photos above are the same gun? I would be interested in your opinion. I would like to state that this is just for fun. It's Sunday afternoon, I've had a busy weekend, and it's too hot to go outside. I'm also interested in how other folks view and interpret these old photos. I have no agenda or vested interest. Just curiosity.

Anyway, the recently discovered rifle has a rawhide wrap on the wrist and some tasteful brass tack work which is not visible in the photo of Beckwourth holding the rifle. However, the rawhide and tacks could have been added at any time, even by a subsequent owner. Both rifles are heavy, fullstocked percussion guns with double-set triggers.

The Beckwourth photo appears to show a left-handed rifle, with the lock on the left-hand side. Note that Jim's butcher knife is also in his belt for a left-hand cross-draw. It is my understanding that the images were reversed in these early photographs, and that is obvious when there are belt buckles with "US" on them, or Winchester repeating rifles with the loading gate visible, but I don't see any clues like that in this photo. Left-handed guns (and people) did exist back then, although guns with the lock on the left side were comparatively rare. I'm not aware of any documentation to indicate Jim was left-handed. I'm just going on the assumption that the rifle in the Beckwourth photo is shown in reverse, and it was in fact a right-handed rifle. If any of you good folks can make relevant comments on early photographic techniques and technology, I would be interested. I don't know much about it, and I' always open to learning something.

I examined the rifle in the Beckwourth photo as well as I could, but one problem is that the image of the muzzle is fuzzy and the buttstock sort of disappears in a haze. In addition, the rifle may be leaning back a little, but it's hard to confirm that. This complicated getting accurate full-length measurements of the rifle and the LOP. With careful measurements and calculations of proportion, I was able to determine that the distance from the rear sight to the drum (bolster) in the rifle photo is about 27% of the barrel length, while the distance from the rear sight to the drum on the rifle in the Beckwourth photo appears to be about 32% of the barrel length. The overall length (OAL) of the gun in the rifle photo is 142% of the barrel length, while the OAL of the rifle in the Beckwourth photo appears to be 138% of the barrel length.

Notes on the Muzzleloader magazine webpage indicate the barrel on the rifle is 40.625"long, from the muzzle to the point where the tang meets the barrel. Using this as a mathematical constant and taking measurements from the image on my computer screen, I was able to calculate a length of pull (LOP) of 14.59", which is pretty long for a rifle of that vintage, and an overall length (OAL) of 57.78". That's almost five feet. If the rifle in the Beckwourth photo is that long, Jim must have been a pretty tall fellow.

One other detail to note is that the rifle that was featured in Muzzleloader magazine has a little spur or finger rest riveted to the bow of the triggerguard immediately below the rear trigger. There is "something" there, in that same spot, on the rifle in the Beckwourth photo.

So, all things considered, I think these images probably show the same rifle. Please submit your own opinion by clicking the appropriate bubble, and comment (or not) as you feel appropriate. I'm pretty sure you can go back and change your "vote" if you change your mind. The poll will close in seven days.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Sorry, I don't believe so! the one he is holding is for a southpaw & the rifle pic is a right-hander! LOOK CLOSER!!

 

[Spillikins]

Sorry, I don't believe so! the one he is holding is for a southpaw & the rifle pic is a right-hander! LOOK CLOSER!!

It's a good idea to read the thread before posting.
Especially post #39.
In fact Notchy Bob mentioned the discrepancy in his initial post, which you quoted.
READ MORE CLOSELY!!

 

[Cayman like]

View attachment 252358

 

[Cayman like]

No need to reverse the image. I believe Jim was a lefty. I'll look for the image of Jim in a biography l got of him where he was clean shaven and had another butcher knife worn in his front for a left hand draw and post it tomorrow.

 

[Cayman like]

In

 

[Cayman like]

InView attachment 253373

Jim the Crow with several names he earned in battle ,the Antelope being one liked his blades big and worn in front. Maybe this Pic is when he was a professional gambler in the gold fields of California.

 

[Winterhawk]

Don't forget that back then, the photographers carried props with them and posed the subjects how they thought wold make the best picture. The knives and rifle in the Beckwourth photos might not be what he personally owned, but what were supplied by the photographer.

 

[Cayman like]

 

[Cayman like]

View attachment 253418

Here's a sketch of Beckwourth from his biography...no need to reverse the image...but of course I could be wrong.

 

[Dobegrant]

Unable to tell from the pictures but it is a very good read with lots of information presented

 

[TFoley]

Check the location of the trigger guard, lock and wrist.

However - check the location of the backsight and length of the barrel.................................

IMO, NOT the same rifle.

I might be wrong, but in view of the possibility that Mr B WAS a leftie, as depicted in the photo of the LH rifle shown with his biography in post #48, and also the fact that I've spent almost fifty years of my professional life as a photogrammatist - I'll just leave it to the experts.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Thanks to all who responded and/or voted. The consensus is these are not the same rifle. I won’t enter the debate about left-handed versus reversed image, but in looking at things like rear sight placement and proportional barrel length, I agree that they are probably different rifles, although they show some similarities.

All good fun.

Notchy Bob

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

I do not believe it is the same rifle, agreeing with some of the comments already made. He may have owned a number of firearms, or like others pointed out, it could simply be a prop. As to the image:

It appears to be a portrait known as Ambrotype. These were popular in the 1850's and since Beckwourth died in 1866 it would make sense.

If you have a copy of Rick Hacker's The Muzzleloading Hunter, he explains the Ambrotype process on the back of the dust jacket. This type of portrait when developed resulted in the image being reversed, which may explain why the rifle appears to be left-handed.

 

[reddogge]

I said different rifles based on the one in the picture has a lot of curl and the one with the tacks has none.