Is there such a thing as Too Shiny

[Supercracker]

Just curious. I was moving around some old stuff in the shop and had to go through some old painting gear and buffing compounds and I was thinking.

Is it possible for a bore to be too shiny? With a good buffing compound you can make metal look just like a mirror.

 

[matt denison]

shiney bore = good

easier to load

easier to clean

easier to tell if you have a lot of gunk in there or a rough bore

eliminates some variables

 

[Supercracker]

that was my line of thought.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Some will say it is possible with rifles. I once saw a guy nearly have a heart attack when some old timer took a handful of dirt/sand off the ground and rub it up and down in the bore. :shocked2: The rifle had been a very accurate tack driver but started throwing wildly. The old timer claimed the bore had gotten too polished and 'restored' it to a less smooth condition. Worked. Went back to being accurate.....after they revived the owner.

 

[Macon Due]

I think 1776 is onto something, I shot rimfire benchrest for a time and the general concenus seemed to be that 'too shiney/smooth' was bad for ultimate accuracy....had to be good but a tiny bit..."toothy"
Macon

 

[Supercracker]

Sounds like we're coming up on experimentin time!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like we're coming up on experimentin time!

Do it to yer guns. I look forward to your report. :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Many Klatch]

There was an old shooter at Friendship that they tell stories on. If his gun stopped shooting dead on he would piss in the barrel and let it stand overnight. The next day it went right back to being a tack driver.

Not something I ever want to try, but an interesting take on shiny barrels.

Many Klatch

 

[paulvallandigham]

The theory I was told at Friendship about roughing the bore to "restore Accuracy" was that a too slick bore allowed the ball to slip in the patch, and break the seal between the bore and the ball. Supposedly, roughing the bore made the patch STICK to the ball better, and only release the ball from the patch after it left the muzzle.

We know that the patch and ball separate after they leave the muzzle. What we don't know is if there is such a thing as "slipping " the ball from the patch as its moving up the barrel when fired.

I highly doubt it, Personally.

Frankly, I have placed this old myth in the category of match rifle shooters trying to beat an opponent, by getting him to do something dumb that will destroy his accuracy. If he doesn't do it, but believes roughing his bore would help, the competitors have introduced some doubt in that gullible shooter's mind, and he is more likely to make mental errors during the match, giving them the chance to beat him. Either way, they win.

Moral: Don't play the other guy's game. :shocked2: :blah: :surrender: :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

You should be competing with yourself, not the other shooters. If you do everything right, you will begin to win some matches. :hmm: :surrender: :v

 

[Supercracker]

Sounds like we're coming up on experimentin time!

Do it to yer guns. I look forward to your report. :rotf: :rotf:

Yeahhhhhhh, don't think I'll be putting sand or pee down the barrel of any of my guns. At least not on purpose.

However it would be interesting to get a gun patterned and then polish it through 3 or 4 more progressively finer stages repatterning it at each. Wouldn't be too difficult either.

 

[Haleh]

Just thinking. Could a slightly rough bore (on a smooth bore) put a bit of spin on a roundball causing it to be more accurate?

H.Hale

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Could a slightly rough bore (on a smooth bore) put a bit of spin on a roundball causing it to be more accurate?

I highly doubt it unless all the rough parts were only on one side of the barrel!

 

[troutabout]

""Moral: Don't play the other guy's game.""

Exactly. All this sounds like something I used to do at company golf tournaments. I'd ask my competitor if he inhaled or exhaled before making his golf swing. Screws 'em up every time.

The truth is that if you carve your ex-wife's name into the ball it will track perfectly.

 

[jethro224]

The theory I was told at Friendship about roughing the bore to "restore Accuracy" was that a too slick bore allowed the ball to slip in the patch, and break the seal between the bore and the ball. Supposedly, roughing the bore made the patch STICK to the ball better, and only release the ball from the patch after it left the muzzle.

I, too, highly doubt it. Mostly because it makes absolutely NO sense. Maybe roughing the BALL would stop it from slipping in the patch, if such a thing could happen. Roughing the bore would just cause more drag on the patch which, it seems to me, would make the ball more likely to slip from the patch, IF such a thing could happen.

It does seem possible that roughing the bore may cause the load to develop more pressure during the shot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I, too, highly doubt it. Mostly because it makes absolutely NO sense

I agree.It seems to make no sense. But it happened and I have been told this is not an unusual procedure.
Seems unusual to me. Don't try it with my guns. :shake:
BTW, I have no idea what the theory might be.

 

[jethro224]

The thing that I meant made no sense was the theory about the ball slipping out of the patch. I was only replying to Paul's post.

I have no opinion on your restored accuracy story part 'cause I've never tried it, heard of it, nor seen it done.
I have heard the theory of too much lube making a patch too slippery and reducing velocity tho. Maybe the roughing raises velocity by increasing drag and pressure. That might affect accuracy. :idunno:

 

[tom deinek]

I've heard a guy suggest, "P on that rifle" but I did not know he was advising the above procedure be used.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Kit Ravenshear used to roughen up just the last 4" to 1" below the muzzle of a smoothbore to improve patterning. Put drag on the wadding(?) or some such theory.

 

[George]

Kit Ravenshear used to roughen up just the last 4" to 1" below the muzzle of a smoothbore to improve patterning.

An old idea, way back to late 17th century. From An Essay on Shooting by Wm. Cleator, 1789:

FROM the prejudices which obtain so generally among sportsmen and gunsmiths, respecting the shot of pieces, it is very natural to suppose, that a variety of means have been sought after and practised in order to remedy this real or pretended effect of scattering the charge. Mr de Marolles mentions several methods employed for this purpose, none of which, however, appear to be practised in England; and indeed, if we may be allowed to judge of them a priori, we believe few gunsmiths here will have faith enough to make the experiment. One of the methods he describes is as follows: An iron or wooden mandril fitted to the caliber, is furnished at one end with small files which are cut transversely only; this instrument being introduced into the barrel is turned round by means of a cross-handle, and forms a great number of superficial scratches in the metal, by which, they pretend, the defect of scattering the shot is remedied. One obvious effect of this operation is that of destroying the smoothness of the barrel within, and thereby rendering it liable to dirty the sooner, but we cannot conceive how the shot should be thrown closer by having the friction increased between it and the sides of the caliber, and that this will be the case, is evident, from a rough barrel being always found leaded considerably after every discharge.

Spence

 

[paulvallandigham]

Ah! Now that makes a bit more sense, Spence10. Someone is taking an idea thought to work with Shot loads, and tried to apply it to shooting Round Balls.

As to roughing the end of the bore, people have long ago seen evidence of patterns of shot "spinning" in a helical form through the air, with the center of the pattern getting a larger, empty hole, as the shot travels further from the muzzle.

The thought has always been that the wads behind the shot column begin to ROTATE in the barrel, because of uneven pressure against the wad- whether the wad was seated "crooked to the bore", or not.

Roughing the bore is intended to Stop this ROTATION of both the wads and the shot BEFORE the shot leaves the barrel, thus improving PATTERN DENSITY.

The same principal is behind the attempts to improve PATTERN DENSITY( ie. the number of shot pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards)using STRAIGHT GROOVES in the barrel to keep the wads from ROTATING.

People are still doing this kind of work with barrels today- Briley comes to mind for straight rifling in modern shotgun barrels.

40 years ago, there was an article in Gun Digest about the Perazzi company in Italy Doing tests on its barrels using Straight rifling. They achieved 98% patterns consistently from their barrels, and were offering their guns and barrels to the Italian Olympic team for shooting International Trap and Skeet.

More recently, My late friend, Jim Gabbard, bought some of the new 24 gram, 3 1/4 dram 12 gauge loads, required by current Olympic rules, to test, and found he could get 98% patterns out of his Remington 11-87 shotgun. NO straight rifling, no roughing the bore, just his standard full choke. He had half a dozen pattern papers , and the lowest count was 93%. In actual trap shooting test, he found the lighter load( 4 pellets shy of 7/8 oz) covered the 40 yards very fast, and he had to put his bead right on the clay target to hit them, even shooting from the 27 yd. handicap line.

With a "Bare" ball, or a PRB, I don't think we see any evidence of the ball rotating inside the barrel. The Round back side of any ball tends to force gases to push against the ball evenly. It might be possible to have a ball rotating if some kind of OP wad is used, as you are back to that uneven pressure of gases on a "crooked" wad in the bore..... :hmm: :idunno: :surrender: :hatsoff:

However, I would think that some rotation- of any kind--- would contribute to better accuracy, not hurt Round Ball accuracy. That would tend to negate the idea that roughing the bore would aid in shooting a RB accurately. :hmm: