Is This A Rifle--Or A Smooth Bore?

[Richard Hare.]

Thanks for reply, Mike.
Seems you have much more experience with these barrels than I have! All I could do was quote the late W Keith Neal.
Are the Getz barrels light as well?...say as light as his other birding-piece barrels?
If so, might make an interesting build!....

 

[Wehrmacht]

Many, many thanks to all who have added to my knowledge about this piece! I will return the favors whenever I can!

Through private communications with Schimmelsmith I have learned that the original is now back with the Neumann Collection and no longer at Valley Forge. Also that the stock on the original was probably treated with pine tar! This immediately set off bells and whistles in my mind questioning if the original might possibly have had a maritime provenance? Pine tar is usually associated with wooden ships and boats, and the coastal plains of the Carolinas throughout the longleaf pine belt was the primary source of pine tar until recent times. This fits in perfectly with the original being a pieced togather Southern straight rifle!

From Schimmelsmith I also have a set of plans,full scale,of the piece in the mail coming to me! I had attempted to find these plans that I knew existed from The Log Cabin Shop which had them originally back in the late 1970's, but these were no longer in print. Thank you, Schimmelsmith,for your thoughtfulness!

A quick phone call to David Dodds and I found out that the rifling was cut shallow in keeping with original thoughts on this. Rifling is round bottom,and just slightly wider than a #5 shot. I think that a #4 would fit perfectly. The barrel is much thicker than the Ed Rayle or Getz fowler barrels that I have,but the piece is perfectly balanced,and I doubt if it weighs any over 6 1/2 or maybe 7 pounds at most.

Compared to a classic Lancaster rifle,or a Rowan County,NC rifle, she is an ugly ole gal! But, as I mellow in my old age, I have developed quite a liking for ugly ole gals! :haha:.

 

[Stophel]

I have some photos of the gun that I took at Valley Forge several years ago, including a muzzle view. I THINK (if I remember correctly), there are square grooves, but am not sure. I don't have the photos in front of me. In a discussion I was involved in some months ago, the consensus was that the gun is not nearly as old as it was purported to be. The stocking looks like something from the mid-late-19th century. The fluted comb nose is the clincher for me. If it had a more "normal" looking comb (and perhaps without the grease hole), no one would question the 18th century dating of the gun.

I keep intending to build myself a straight rifled gun. Eventually, I'll get around to it.

German straight rifled guns are treated as smoothbores. No rear sights, plain triggers. They would shoot shot or patched ball. Might be considered a "general purpose" gun...

 

[Wehrmacht]

I've discussed the time frame with several whose judgement I trust about time periods,and I don't think there is any question that the piece was in use long after the RevWar. Now,how do you prove that it is honestly a RevWar vet? I don't know,but I think it possibly was.Neumann must have known something to peg it as a vet. The original barrel,tricker guard and side plate aparently are from a group of Dutch manufactured muskets that came to the Colonies about 1740-41.

Southerners as a rule were very (at least at that time) good at using whatever they could get their hands on to put togather firearms. My thinking is that someone in the South ended up with the major parts,restocked it and used it. The grease hole which pegs it a Southern piece could have been added much later....who knows? It was originally flintlock,naturally, converted to caplock then converted back to flintlock with the wrong lock being used.Was the original lock Dutch also-broken beyond repair and discarded-again,who knows. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was part original,pieced togather and used well into the 19th century somewhere in the original Southern Colonies :thumbsup:.

Ever hear the story about the yankee carpetbagger who challenged the young Southern boy who claimed that the rifle he was carrying was used by his Ggrandpap at Kings Mountain? This could well be a similar situation :haha:.

 

[arilar]

If this can be of any interest I have this pics of two Swedish straight-rifled guns. Both with rear-sight.

This first made 1795 and has 38" barrel with caliber ca. .720 (grooves).

This second made ca.1840-50 with 36" barrel and caliber ca. .690 (grooves).

Regards,
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

Cool! The bottom one has "major" and "minor" grooves. You will see this from time to time. I wonder how practical forms like this were.

I really like Swedish guns, but know very little about them. I have never seen one in person, and have few photos of them. The ones I have seen have been beautifully straightforward in design, and tasteful and restrained in decoration. At first glance, they often look like a straight-wristed German gun, but they are distinctly Scandinavian. Big rounded cheekpieces with a big "volute" carved behind. Do you have other photos of the above guns, particularly the earlier one?

 

[arilar]

Hi, will produce photos but busy working 1-2 days. Maybe time tonight? Getting back on the other thread then.
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup: