Is traditional ML on the upswing?

[colmoultrie]

Nice offer, giving your number to call on your dime. I still have only skimmed through the newsletters you sent me last year - an addition on the house and two small kids, not to mention grading student papers, etc., got in the way.

I'm hardly in need of conversion to historic BP (I occasionally show up at school in colonial garb as it is), but your generosity was nice in its own right.

Things like that will get newcomers interested - let's hope there are enough of them.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Nice offer, giving your number to call on your dime. I still have only skimmed through the newsletters you sent me last year - an addition on the house and two small kids, not to mention grading student papers, etc., got in the way.

I'm hardly in need of conversion to historic BP (I occasionally show up at school in colonial garb as it is), but your generosity was nice in its own right.

Things like that will get newcomers interested - let's hope there are enough of them.

Kevin,

You're welcome, and thanks for the post! I have more for you to read if you're interested at some later date. Just let me know! How old are the kids? I may be able to locate some kid-sized eyes & ears at the indoor range, and get them to you, so let me know.

Stay warm & well! All the best!

Dave

 

[colmoultrie]

The kids are 4 -daughter and 2 - son. I have adult size ears that telescope down small and my daughter has used sunglasses the one time she has shot my .22, but she's really still too small - had to tuck the stock under her arm and I did most of the holding last summer, but she enjoyed taking several shots, and that's all one could hope for at that stage. This summer she wants to go to a rondevous with me, so she can wear her colonial dress (see my photos from Christmas), and I plan to take her for a day to the one up in the Endless Mountains. There were a bunch of kids, including a number of teenage girls there in costume, and at this stage she adores teenage girls, so that should be a positive experience. She probably won't shoot any at age 5, but if I can get her playing period games and perhaps throwing a knife or hawk, that will be a wonderful start.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Good Cheer, I think your question reveals that a prophetic vision has been visited unto ye, and now you seek confirmation from other similar-minded folk because really, there isn't yet an overabundance of evidence to set your mind at ease and verify the veracity of your vision. Yes, my friend, yes. I don't know a thing about the GM drop-in angle on this, but I'm willing to admit that it might play a larger part than I have a feel for. In the land of plenty, and that can mean plenty of spoiled cry babies used to getting their way, be on the lookout for this sign: Yuppies will continue or begin visiting gun sites where vintage guns are the norm. These people are just getting used to the idea of shooting damascus barrels as safe. Wait. Be still. Before this the hammer-doubles shot up in popularity in a very quick time. I knew in my bones it was coming but like a fool did nothing to beat these boomer yuppies from scarfing up all they could get their hands on. And man, did they ever go out the door, overpriced being no object, everyone had to have one or two or..... Wait. Be still. Try to summon your original vision. Going backwards chronologically, what could be next? Why yes, those firearms where black powder is spilled into the gun at its muzzle. And here the troops amass. There's plenty of history, plenty of differences, plenty to learn, plenty of curiosities...Decisions to be made, percussion cap or flintlock? We all know the answer to that one. They'll "dip their toe" in the water by going with the "more reliable" caplock, swim in those waters for awhile and then feel the magnetic pull of THE ROCK. Ahhhh! They'll start to approach their true home. Plenty of flinting to do before comparing to percussion, you know they'll feel truy delivered with guns of both persuasions. And don't forget the immense draw of......the accoutrements! My God, they'll spend hours, days, weeks, months exploring this aspect of muzzloading. So much "neat stuff" to buy, and they love to spend money, you must not forget that. Even if they don't have it, they will. I'm as sure about this as I am about the sun rising in a few hours. The legions will grow and grow and grow. All power and glory to you, Sri Bhaktiva! Do not stray from your vision. It will happen accordingly, every detail manifesting at the right time. All glories to you!!!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

As far as kids go, I guess it's always up to the parents. Good for you to get her involved! I held the butt stock of a .22 kids rifle for my 5 year old--got him a Marlin "Little Buckaroo" .22 LR single-shot bolt action with built-in loading tray. Nice, small, light, and with a big red safety indicator--a great trainer! Didn't have to hold it for too long, and he grew into it. I still have it and use it for small-framed woman folk.

Getting the kids involved at an early age is easy, cause they want to do what the parents do. The trick is to get them to put down the mobile device on a 3G network to go shooting when they're in college :haha: . Sometimes he does what I want, sometimes he's got too much homework from guys like you :shocked2: :haha: .

Thanks for the PT earlier, and stay in touch!

Dave

 

[SimonKenton]

ANY time you're at the range with your flinter and some kid's there with his dad let him shoot it if he shows any interest at all and Dad says it's OK. I have infected more than a few boys (old and young) that way. :grin:

-Ray

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Kids can shoot what ever I'm shooting, if I feel that they can hold onto the gun :thumbsup: . From .22's to my Garand, from the 1858 New Model Army to the Walker Dragoon to my Lyman Trade Rifle. Of course I always inquire of the parent(s) before I offer out loud. To allay their fears, I often shoot the 12 gauge with just my strong hand, extended as if it's a pistol :shocked2: . Then I tell them if I can do it with just one arm, that they can surely succeed with both.

Getting kids hooked on the fun is what it's all about. We have to teach them that it's O-K to like to shoot, and not to listen to the nay-sayers in the education system.

My Eagle Scout is a junior in college. Last month at an Outdoor Show in Jersey I found-out that his HS Principal was the chairman of the high power league at a gun club in Princeton NJ! He (the Principal) was never allowed to talk about it on school grounds.

I hear ya Ray, and I lead by example as often as God will allow me!

Dave

 

[Zonie]

Call me grumpy but kids at the shooting range cannot shoot whatever I'm shooting.

If I'm shooting my .45-70 High Wall or Sharps, my .25-06 or any other gun that has a heavy recoil it's off base for kids even if their parents say it's OK.

It's not that I think they may drop the gun, it is just that I remember firing a high powered rifle when I was young and it stomped the manure out of my arm.
It took years to overcome that experience.

Now, if a kid wants to shoot one of my muzzleloaders and I think he's big enough and his parent(s) say its OK I'll gladly agree.

I do make a slight change though. I load the gun with a reduced powder load. One that I know won't create a lot of recoil.

When the kid (or small woman) touches it off and their is still the big boom, smoke and light recoil, they always end up with an ear to ear grin on their face and I'm sure they go to sleep dreaming about the day when they can own their own "Old Time Gun".

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I should have written more about the ages/sizes of the kids! :thumbsup: Of course I'm always vigilant when it comes to recoil, and the offers are age-specific based upon a combination of previous experience, (I.E.: Dad lets his 16 year-old, 6' high, 200 pound son shoot his .375 H&H bolt action from the bench, so my 72 grains of 3F pushing a .490 round ball won't put a hurt on THIS kid!), firearms training & handling skills, etc.

When teaching women and kids how to shoot, we always use good judgment about weight of the guns and amount of recoil. Since I only shoot at private ranges, if a kid/woman is watching me shoot, a parent/husband that's a club member/shooter is standing beside them. Chances are extremely high that the kid/woman has shot something, so that I have a common frame of reference before I say anything, as most interested kids/women will volunteer such info as I strike-up a conversation. By inquiring of the parent/husband what the kid/woman has shot already, and asking permission of the parent to ask his/her child to shoot my guns, I've practiced due diligence in ascertaining the needed info so that I don't promulgate a bad recoil experience. Since we're all chained & pad-locked into the private range, I don't have to worry about someone walking up to me that's never held a firearm. It's just a matter of WHAT they've shot already! At a "Public" event, sometimes the parents aren't shooters, and so it may be the kid's/woman's first time shooting, so additional care is always taken :thumbsup: .

The above applies to all firearms types in my entire collection :thumbsup: .

Sorry that I wasn't as complete in my last post.....I was headed out to a Boy Scout meeting to invite the Troop to come and shoot muzzleloaders with me at a "Scout day" held at our State Association Range

Dave

 

[Robby]

I always offer up a shot when there is a kid at the range, with parents permission of course. The big smile on the kid, and the parent is priceless and never fails to appear. You never know the impact of a simple act of kindness and generosity, like a ripple on a pond.
Robby

 

[Zonie]

It sounds like we are singing out of the same Hymn book. :grin:

 

[tg]

I suspect there are small pockets of upswing due to folks like the members of this forum and many of the forum members, but if one were to look at the traditional gear/guns (sidelocks/BP /balls open non-peep sights) sold 25-30 years ago compared to what is sold now it would be a line graph with a radical downward trend, it has to be as many makers quit making the traditional type guns and any advertisment is for the guns that come out of the box sighted in and ready to hunt with out to 200 yds, and all the modern stuff you HAVE to have to go ML hunting.Low membeship specialty activities are at a loss if confronted with a cheap highly advertised ( truthfully or not) competition.I have noticed members in the 20-40 year range here so there has been some seed take root the last couple of decades but it will likely remain a low membership hoby as it always has been compared to the other shooting sports,it takes more than just likeing to shoot guns to develope an interest in it, and it is exclusive to a degree due to the nature of the sport.It takes a little more work and research time than most of the other shooting sports and it seems that as a people we more and more tend to follow the path of least resistance.

 

[SimonKenton]

I'm talking Scout age (11-17) and I load LIGHT for the little guys. A 50 grain load under a .54 round ball in a 44" barrel is not harsh. It just jerks a bit so he knows he "fired a real gun".

You should SEE the grins on kids that age when they get an unexpected chance to shoot a flinter.

-Ray

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Ray,

You just about hit the nail on the head! :thumbsup: As a certified Merit Badge Counselor for Rifle & Shotgun Merit Badges, we are instructed via the BSA to utilize a recommended load of 1 grain per caliber (50 grains in my .50 or 54 in your .54) or less, depending upon the size of the Scout. So you're doing it right according to the book!

As far as watching their faces, it puts joy in my heart! One day a couple years ago, I, my son and another patrol mate of his that I taught to shoot (both new Eagle Scouts at the time), did a Black Powder Muzzleloading Rifle "Station" at a Camporee where the Scouts got to fire our rifles. We had a great set-up, with three rifles, each with it's own Instructor, cigar box of pre-measured powder charges, balls, patches, short starter, range rod, caps, and another cigar box for the empty loading tubes. The Scouts did everything under strict one-on-one supervision: Poured powder, short-started the PRB, used the range rod to fully seat it upon the charge, then they sat and aimed while we capped the nipples. They fired the rifles and always hit the targets and the smiles were ear-to-ear!

What a fantastic time! the three of us were pretty tuckered-out by the end of the day, but we managed to infect about 250 Scouts with the thrill of making SMOKE! It's a memory that I'll cherish the rest of my life! :thumbsup:

I'm really glad to be a member here, where so many nice folks are willing to give of themselves to teach/tease the next generation into the glorious hobby! :hatsoff:

Dave

 

[Tumblernotch]

Is Traditional Muzzleloading on the Upswing?

No. The availability of quality guns and parts as well as information is probably at its highest, but I believe that there is a pretty small percentage of the shooting population taking advantage of it. At least that's what I'm seeing in WV. Maybe in some areas of some states there is some growth, but here the traditional ML clubs are dying and with the exception of a few of us traditional shooters all ML deer hunting is done with inlines. You tell anyone you shoot and hunt with a flintlock, they look at you like you have seven horns growing out of your head. We have one ML shop in the whole state and much of its products is inline related. The same goes for shops in southern PA I visit. No, I don't see any upswing sorry to say. We're tryin' though.

 

[Jason Lewis]

i think we are right were we should be in regards to manufacturing gun quality. the few that are out there are of good quality and reliability assuming the shooter does their part. i think all the comparitivly cheap junk that was on the market in the 70's shot us in the foot when it comes to shooters. as an example, i have been giving my dads old invest arms hawken from 76ish some TLC latley. the memories of shooting it when i was a kid came flooding back.. including all the missfires from a s@$%#y flintlock that is on the gun. i never knew it when i was a kid but looking at the lock now i realize that lock geometry is non existant, the tumbler has rounded off corners so that it has no functioning half cock, the sear spring broke years ago and my dad just stuck a coil spring in it to make it work (which it does). this lock eats flints like theres no tomorrow, and sparks poorly and is unreliable. which is why even though this is the first gun i can remember shooting i also remember 3 missfires before it would shoot. my dad no longer shoots bp, hasn't for years, in fact i've got all of his stuff and he doesn't care at all. while discussing my new turkey gun i'm making my dad stated much to my ire, that a flintlock is too unreliable to use on turkey and that he will back me up with his SP10. please don't miss understand he didn't mean anyting malisciuos it's just based on his experiencees with cheap guns.
that's why i think the cheap guns hurt us soo much. and why the attitude prevails that traditional guns arent' reliable. it's going to take a long time to turn that around.

 

[ebiggs1]

The fact that no store or shop in a very large radius form me has any selection of any side lock says something. Neither Bass Pro, the Missouri nor Kansas, store has any side locks. Oh, you might run into a used one in a gun shop or pawnshops rack. Our Cabela’s had a clearance on side locks, I made a visit last weekend and there was none. I asked if they were getting more but the fellow didn’t know for sure. He said he could order whatever I wanted but I can do that myself. Both stores still have cap and ball revolvers, however. Both stores have in-lines galore. I can’t see how anyone could say our sport isn’t declining. Support is key to keeping this alive.

 

[nkbj]

Summer before last a nephew and his sweet woman brought their four boys to come stay with us a week. We target shot the gong, had a big bonfire, made smoke. They loved it. Kids like things like that. They just have to be exposed to it.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: Exposure is the best way to promote the hobby. Women, kids, everybody can just relax, hang-out and try a few shots!

Last night I just volunteered to help do a "Scout Day" at the big State Assoc. Range. 300 Boy Scouts in a single day will go through the program, and I get to be a part of it. I can't wait to see the smiles on their faces!

 

[HellifIknow]

I don't think so.
There isn't a BP gunshop anywhere within 100 miles of me any more.
I think the main reason is mail order killed them off.
As for numbers of BP shooters its probably about the same.
In Texas there isn't a dedicated muzzleloader hunting season so there aren't a lot of BP hunters.