Woodsrunner CNC Incised Carving

[2 shots]

i for one am glad the "fowler" has that machine carving as i would not be able to do that myself. to me it really brings the piece alive . i feel it would be so much less without it. thank you Jim. p.s. seems this piece is hand done as Jim cleans it up by...hand im waiting on my 16 gauge in cherry.

 

[reddogge]

i for one am glad the "fowler" has that machine carving as i would not be able to do that myself. to me it really brings the piece alive . i feel it would be so much less without it. thank you Jim. p.s. seems this piece is hand done as Jim cleans it up by...hand im waiting on my 16 gauge in cherry.

The Fowler has relief carving vs incised carving on the Woodsrunner. Big difference. I'd like to see some relief carving on the Woodsrunner. Maybe not the full rifle, just the finial and beaver tails like the Fowler.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I don't think everyone can learn to carve, some lack manual dexterity and hand eye coordination, they will never have it.

When I got out of the Army in 69, I went to the unemployment office to take an aptitude test for job placement. One of the drills was to pick up small washers and place them one at a time on a vertical dowel, I think there were 30 washers loose in the pile, the time limit was one minute.

The instructor said go, I had all 30 washers on the dowel in 30 seconds. The guy next to me looked like a preppy college guy, well dressed and a pleasant type of guy. I noticed him struggling with his washers, he dropped them, he couldn't center them over a dowel, if there is anyone who was all thumbs it was him. He got 3 washers on the dowel in one minute.

Us crafty guys take it for granted that everyone else is just as gifted as we are but that is not the case. I learned this from teaching bow making over the years, there are a lot of klutzes out there through no fault of their own.

I saw a NIB TC Cherokee with a .36 and .45 barrels going for close to $1000 on the classified here today, this combo is as rare as hens' teeth and should sell easily. The carved Woodsrunner may be in the same boat someday.

 

[duca]

Ok I’ve been reading this post and wanted to add my 2cent. I think the incised carving is great, but what’s with the horizontal lines? Do you know what I mean. I think it might look better without those lines there.? Jim, do you know what I’m talking about?

 

[painter]

I have nothing nice to say about Pathfinder's horns. So I won't say anything.

I don't like carving very much either, be it done by hand, or machine, but since I have nothing nice to say, I won't critique Jim's offering's.

I will say that both Pathfinder, and Jim Kibler offer products that others can't accomplish. That's a good thing for everyone involved.

I'll add, that just because it's done by hand, and there may be slightly different designs, it doesn't mean they're unique. Every artisan has a style, and their work has a certain flavor/look, and to my eye it could easily have been done by a CNC machine with a slightly different program.

People should stop being critical of what they can't/won't/don't do.

Flame suit on.

 

[2 shots]

what’s with the horizontal lines

been wondering about them also. ??? i dont recall ever seeing them on anything before. but i have far from seen everything on originals.

 

[TDM]

Ok I’ve been reading this post and wanted to add my 2cent. I think the incised carving is great, but what’s with the horizontal lines? Do you know what I mean. I think it might look better without those lines there.? Jim, do you know what I’m talking about?

been wondering about them also. ??? i dont recall ever seeing them on anything before. but i have far from seen everything on originals.

Agree, the horizontal lines on mine are hard for me to warm up to. The incised carvings themselves are great. I've no doubt the lines are historically correct if Jim took the trouble to cut them in, but I wish they weren't there. However, it's still a fine rifle.

 

[duca]

TDM I concur

 

[Psycho Mike]

This is quite the thread....and now I'm going to add my $0.02 to it...

Yes, the WR kit has incised carving, not relief carving. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it and it can be admired for what it is (machine or hand done) and at the price point, I don't think you can get another quality kit with carving. Personally, I like it and I was really looking at a carved WR...thought of doing a cherry version with black aniline dye followed by alkanet root.

If you're wanting a "perfect" recreation of an original (either as it came from the smith's hands or as it looks today), then sure, the incised WR may not be your preferred starting point. If you're a new shooter, shooter on a budget, doing your first kit or someone who can admire a well worked stock (even it if isn't a perfect clone of an original and "only" incised) then the WR provides a beautiful stepping stone into the world of flintlocks with carving work that puts it head and shoulders above the other kits (Traditions and Pedersoli, I'm looking at you here) that you find in the local gun shops.

It may not float your personal boat, but that's fine....there's lots of room in muzzleloading for a wide variety of interests and likes. In my books, I'd like to encourage folks into the sport (shooting sports in general do not seem to be encouraged or even well tolerated these days) rather than see what we do fade into the past.

Myself, even though I drooled over the carved WR, I ended up going with a Colonial for the .58 cal. Even so, I decided to try my hand at some carving too. The plain stock is nice, but I figured it could use a little something to personalize it and add a bit of dressing up (without making a $500 rifle out of a $1000 kit). I certainly have great appreciation for those who can do full relief carving...but I'm not there yet. I did hand carve incised lines (molding lines), as well as a Maltese cross into my patch box lid, and added an inset for a "coin" in the comb, but that was enough of a feat for my first kit. It might not be perfectly period or perfectly matched to my locale, but it looks good to me, is reasonably "in the ballpark" and I'm going to enjoy shooting it for many years to come.

 

[James Kibler]

Agree, the horizontal lines on mine are hard for me to warm up to. The incised carvings themselves are great. I've no doubt the lines are historically correct if Jim took the trouble to cut them in, but I wish they weren't there. However, it's still a fine rifle.

Maybe it's how it was finished? I think they look great and add a great deal to the design. And yes, incised carving is very traditional.

 

[James Kibler]

Another one that looks GREAT to me. In order to help understand, maybe you could share some hand incised carved examples (original or contemporary) you like.

 

[2 shots]

The Fowler has relief carving vs incised carving on the Woodsrunner.

very true , but my post was about machine enhancement and how it is a great option for some ...not about innies or outies. i for one am thankful to jim kibler for offering it to us.

 

[LonestarShootR]

Don't have a dog in the fight but one thing for certain is that Kibler is cashing in on the carving option at $400 extra. That's nearly 50% of what a kit runs for about 5 minutes of machine time.Brilliant marketing on his part.

 

[James Kibler]

Oh, I wish it was that good for us!

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Hang in there Jim, you've got your followers!

 

[2 shots]

just because its a machine that does the work does not mean its easy . design, programing ,cost of machine ect. besides how much do you think it would cost to have a top notch carver do that work??

 

[CuNosecap]

Herein lies the problem in my view... Most or should I say the vast majority of those who try to carve a gunstock are not at all capable of doing this to a very high level. This is just being honest. They may enjoy the process, feel proud of their efforts etc. but when comparing it to good original or contemporary work, it just doesn't come close to measuring up. This is just honesty...

This is me.
I build rifles for me, and only me. Someday they will be in the hands of my disinterested kids, or maybe a yet to be born grandkid. But I love, as a hobby, carving, building etc. My inletting is not perfect, my carving may be crude appearing to many.
But for me, I am proud of the work, the attempt, and the growth I have shown with each build (12 or so now). I have been inspired by many, and even tackled a couple of horns.
I would not pretend to place my second horn next to one of pathfinder’s horns, but I am still inspired by his work.
I do not post my work here because I understand my personal goals, and they have been met.
Thank you Mr Kibler for all you do opening this sport to those who would otherwise never give it a go.
Someday I may build a Kibler, but I will certainly adorn it with my own brand of carving that only I will

thank you all for a very interesting discussion.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Pretty much anyone new that is thinking about getting a gun regardless of time period is advised "buy a kibler". So much in fact it's almost a joke and that should say plenty.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Pretty much anyone new that is thinking about getting a gun regardless of time period is advised "buy a kibler". So much in fact it's almost a joke and that should say plenty.

Hey you should buy a KIBLER.. HaHa I couldn't resist

 

[Commodore Swab]

Hey you should buy a KIBLER.. HaHa I couldn't resist

If I wanted a modern flintlock rifle I would. I tend to like the more odd ball stuff, like the converted wheellock pistol I'm about to start on.