Jazail with Nicholson 1779 flintlock help

[Bartrick]

Hello,
I received this jezail style flintlock from my uncle. It was recovered from the basement of a 4-500 year old building in the LA area back in the 80's. It was in a wooden case with 3 others just like it. The mechanism is a Nicholson 1779. Thy lore passed down with it is that there was a Mexican peasant revolt against the Dons of the area, and that weapons were smuggled in from anywhere they could get them, including these Middle East style jazails. I have no clue to the accuracy of the story, but that's what I was told. Any info on this would be amazing!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This was moved to Original Antiques from flintlock as it's a caplock, and of the two posts this has an extra photo. The extra post was deleted, so all the replies will be in one area...

So that appears to have once been an actual shooting arm vs some of the tourist wall hangers we see cobbled together and heavily embellished. The lock is a British lock, likely from a third model Bess, that has been converted over to caplock, and then used on this gun. The engraving on the back portion of the lock is from the British East India Company, or it's a copy of such engraving, but as the side plate opposite of the lock is British India Pattern Bess style, and the trigger looks it too, I think the parts are genuine. Whether the Afghans converted the lock, or it was converted to caplock and then used is tough to say although the hammer looks correct as well.

Because it appears to have once be used, I think that makes it very cool...

You MIGHT want to have the barrel checked. It would not be odd if it was still loaded.....

LD

 

[Sam squanch]

I highly doubt it was used in any uprising in this country. Afghanistan, more likely. It’s a bring back from a service member or tourist. Looks like the real deal to me! Check if it’s loaded! And do not clean it in any way until you get expert advice on what it may be worth! Hopefully Rick from St. Louis will see this, he knows way more than me!

 

[Bartrick]

This was moved to Original Antiques from flintlock as it's a caplock, and of the two posts this has an extra photo. The extra post was deleted, so all the replies will be in one area...

So that appears to have once been an actual shooting arm vs some of the tourist wall hangers we see cobbled together and heavily embellished. The lock is a British lock, likely from a third model Bess, that has been converted over to caplock, and then used on this gun. The engraving on the back portion of the lock is from the British East India Company, or it's a copy of such engraving, but as the side plate opposite of the lock is British India Pattern Bess style, and the trigger looks it too, I think the parts are genuine. Whether the Afghans converted the lock, or it was converted to caplock and then used is tough to say although the hammer looks correct as well.

Because it appears to have once be used, I think that makes it very cool...

You MIGHT want to have the barrel checked. It would not be odd if it was still loaded.....

LD

Thank you for moving it to the correct location and thanks for the info!

 

[Bartrick]

I highly doubt it was used in any uprising in this country. Afghanistan, more likely. It’s a bring back from a service member or tourist. Looks like the real deal to me! Check if it’s loaded! And do not clean it in any way until you get expert advice on what it may be worth! Hopefully Rick from St. Louis will see this, he knows way more than me!

Thanks, and definitely not cleaning it in any way yet. My first instinct was wanting to clean it to get more detail and info from the markings, but logic kept me from doing anything, it's way out of my league and it's pretty bad ass as is! Definitely feels like a real, antique, field used weapon, not a replica or decorative piece. I do hope to get it appraised at some point

 

[Rudyard]

Thanks, and definitely not cleaning it in any way yet. My first instinct was wanting to clean it to get more detail and info from the markings, but logic kept me from doing anything, it's way out of my league and it's pretty bad ass as is! Definitely feels like a real, antique, field used weapon, not a replica or decorative piece. I do hope to get it appraised at some point

Brer Sam scores again.! where are the other two? . More cheers Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bartrick. Welcome to the Forum.

Much agree with Dave's description in Post #2 above. I can't quite tell from your photo, does the bore appear rifled or smooth bore ? I find the barrels of these Jazails run about 50/50 rifled vs, smooth. The tapered and flared octagon barrel is very common on these guns.
As mentioned, the lock started life as a genuine British East India flintlock, and later locally (Afghan) converted to percussion. The lock plate, while genuine, looks like it was originally from another gun and eventually repurposed for this gun. While Afghan local inletting is not the best, this lock plate appears quite a bit off from it's mortise. The percussion hammer looks to be a locally made copy. But all of this would not be uncommon with these Jazails. The locals would gather and assemble most anything that could be made to shoot. Most of these guns saw hard life.
Agree with others here. In it's current condition it would be best left alone. In it's current condition, and being converted, it probably would not bring more than about $200-300.00 IMHO.
But it does show genuine battlefield use. And the prices at auctions for Eastern market guns has recently gone up.

Rick

 

[Bartrick]

Hi Bartrick. Welcome to the Forum.

Much agree with Dave's description in Post #2 above. I can't quite tell from your photo, does the bore appear rifled or smooth bore ? I find the barrels of these Jazails run about 50/50 rifled vs, smooth. The tapered and flared octagon barrel is very common on these guns.
As mentioned, the lock started life as a genuine British East India flintlock, and later locally (Afghan) converted to percussion. The lock plate, while genuine, looks like it was originally from another gun and eventually repurposed for this gun. While Afghan local inletting is not the best, this lock plate appears quite a bit off from it's mortise. The percussion hammer looks to be a locally made copy. But all of this would not be uncommon with these Jazails. The locals would gather and assemble most anything that could be made to shoot. Most of these guns saw hard life.
Agree with others here. In it's current condition it would be best left alone. In it's current condition, and being converted, it probably would not bring more than about $200-300.00 IMHO.
But it does show genuine battlefield use. And the prices at auctions for Eastern market guns has recently gone up.

Rick

Thank you for all the info!