Jimbo's Underhammer

[Metalshaper]

Is it necessary to place something over the wood so the liquid pewter doesn't scorch it. Thanks

When you prepare the cut out, or refief, for the pewter.. your usually planning the 'pour' to come up and fill the area. ( next to the wood ) When forming, you card stock or manilla folders, is taped and held tight, to the side of the wood. the pewter should not flow over the outer wood surface and scortch.. there may be some at the seam?? although final filing and sanding should remove it, if it does.. <I've never had a problem with it being SO hot,, things turned black??>

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[Metalshaper]

openspaces,

Here is a lil closer look, to CJ's

It shows how I brought the pour around the rear of the forearm and back into a bit of a finail..at the inlets upper edge..

If it had scortched..you'd see it on the wood. but it didn't. the one thing about a pewter pour.. the temp is cooling off,immediately! ..once the form is filled.

Respect Always
Metalshaper

( and for Bovey,, this shows the gun fully cocked.. The hammers throw is only about 7/8ths of an inch!! Very FAST!!)

 

[Zonie]

Some time ago, I answered a post about casting nosecaps.
You might want to follow this link if your interested.
The post is the second Zonie post down.
Note, drilling the holes thru the wood to lock the nosecap in place is highly recommended to keep it from coming loose from the recoil.
CASTING A NOSECAP

 

[gak]

Thank you. I appreciate your time in giving me a sincerely courteous and helpful answer. I've printed the information for future reference and feel confident that if I follow your instructions I will be able to accomplish the task.

 

[gak]

Thank you too Jim for being interested enough to take the time to add to the answer to my question. I also printed your info for future reference.

 

[dd832]

Metalshaper - that is great work and a very nice interpretation of the old Hopkins & Allen design. The custom touches of inserted lockwork & pewter cast inlays set it apart even more.
I'd like to build one with interchangeable barrel too, but I can't find anything about how to make the breechplug snug up to the receiver face. Did you use a tapered pin on your installation?
Mike ::

 

[Metalshaper]

that is great work and a very nice interpretation of the old Hopkins & Allen design. (snips)I can't find anything about how to make the breechplug snug up to the receiver face. Did you use a tapered pin on your installation?
Mike ::

Mike,

I didn't think of taper pins..although I knew H&A did some that way..

Instead I used three 10X32 set screws, located roughly 120 degrees apart. ( In that last pic, the close up, you can see one. )The barrels are breeched and the plug turned down<if required> to a 5/8ths diameter. the end of the frame is reamed to match.
What I did was locate where I thought the holes would go and center marked them. I took the frame to my drill press and used a 'centers-it' V jig, to hold the frame. The trick was, I placed a 1/4" drill bit..under the edge of the jig.< or I could have just rotated my table, but I was working on the fly ::> This created a 10-15 degree slant, rearward, when I pre drilled the holes using a smaller bit.
I then drilled and tapped one for the appropriate thread and put the barrel on. by making sure the barrel was seated tight, I locked that screw in. Then I just drilled the other two for their tap size, extending into the breech stub. after I finished tapping those and setting the screw, I retured to the first position and finished it to depth. Finished the 'seats', in the stub, to just larger than screw size..
All this sounds like a lot, but it creates a nice tight seat. the barrel is deffinately staying put, once you put it in the frame! and since the seats are drilled at a rearward angle.( front to rear, if I hadn't made that clear? :redface: ) when the screws are socked down, they actually pull the barrel in tighter against the frame.

I could take a pic, showing the breech stub, if anyone thinks that is needed? I could probably get away with just using two screws,, but like having the extra security, i guess? and I could use slotted screws, instead of allen head set screws, if someone was gonna gripe about being PC.

( I'd argue, it is PC for a 2005 Mar/Dag gun!! )

Hope I made some of this clear??

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[dd832]

Metalshaper - thanks for sharing the breechplug mounting info. Hope mine comes out 1/2 as nice as yours. I think it's interesting that there is all this interest in one of the most overlooked & efficient lockworks ever devised. I'm working on a Billinghurst action at present. No photos tho - 21st century electronic camera lasted until the end of the warranty period & expired just like the warranty! Thanks again. Mike

 

[Metalshaper]

Mike,

I really like the Billinghurst actions.

I especially like Billinghurst revolver rifles!! I lucked into a complete photo examination, from an auction house , that had an original for sale. Once I clear up some of my other projects.. I want to start building a Revolver rifle, of my own! Just because I always wanted one..

Be interesting, to see how it turns out! :hmm:

Respect Always
Metalshaper

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the Action 3

I received my action from Blue Grouse today. Actually, the return address on the package was Deer Creek Products, the manufacturer. I took it to Dave after work today. It has some rough spots and will need some polishing. Dave wants to wait on the case-hardening until the entire rifle is built.

The triggerguard/hammerspring is very powerful and requires some effort to cock the hammer. Now that I've seen one in person, it's easy to understand why the lock time is so fast. With the power of the spring and the short hammer throw, ignition is going to happen RIGHT NOW!

The trigger pull is nice and crisp. It won't need much tuning.

The only concern I have is returning the barrel to it's original position after removal. Bruce suggests putting register marks on the barrel and the action to realign it. The Allen screws that hold the breech plug hit perfectly round metal. I'm wondering if recesses could be drilled into the breech plug by which the act of tightening the screws would guarantee that that the barrel is where it's supposed to be. This will be particularly important if I use an action-mounted peep sight.

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the Barrel 2

Dave and I were originally going to order a Green Mountain IBS blued fast-twist .54 barrel. I took my Renegade apart to get a better look.

What I like about the GM IBS barrels are that they are completely finished at a price of $265 for stainless and $185 for Blued. They have a fast-twist .54 cal. If I liked the sights and wanted a short forend, this barrel would be a perfect, inexpensive solution.

However, since I'm going to replace the sights and use a long forstock, I would be paying for an underrib, ramrod thimbles, and a patent breech that I won't use, as well as a rear sight I don't like and would replace with an action-mounted peep. I would have to remove the underrib, put in a second underlug, and fill in the rear sight dovetail.

We could order a regular Green Mountain barrel and finish it ourselves, but they don't offer the fast twist .54 cal. I'm thinking we need to look elsewhere. What I would really like to find, is a finished, blued .54 fast-twist that would only need the 3 dovetails. I'm thinking that I ought to talk to some of the other barrel makers like Ed Rayl to see if I can find a better solution.

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the Barrel 3

I talked to Dave tonight and we're going to explore ordering a barrel blank and finishing it ourselve. Since we're not tied to the Green Mountain octagon, we might look for a .54 fast-twist, tapered round blank. We'd blue it, because we think that would look the best with the case-hardened action.

Dave's going to call some barrel-makers to find out what's available. There's a guy called FW from another thread on this forum who has interest in a similar barrel. I'm going to call him and compare notes.

The question of rifling came up. It's my understanding that the traditional slow-twist PRB barrels tend to have deeper rifling. The trend in modern inlines shooting sabots (such as my Omega)is to have shallower rifling.

What I intend to shoot in this underhammer are sabots and conicals-little or no PRB. I would like to know how critical the depth of rifling is to the performance of the barrel and what type would be best. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Jimbo

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the Barrel 4

Still haven't ordered the barrel yet. I'm having trouble finding a custom barrel maker who will break with tradition and make a fast-twist .54. I tried Orion Rifle Barrel Company but their Phone number no longer works. I called the Oregon Rifle Barrels, but haven't gotten a return call from them.
I did get through to Ed Rayl in Gassaway WV. I discussed a 1" to 7/8" tapered round .54 with a 1:36 twist and .007 rifling. He said this would be an excellent combination for shooting conicals and would keep the sabot option open. The only problem is that If I order now, it will be September until it is ready. He quoted me $115 plus shipping which is reasonable.
I'm going to look around some more this week to see if someone can make one sooner. I really don't want to hunt with the Omega again this year.

Jimbo

 

[faw3]

Jimbo the price and time doesnt sound bad on your 54, is that breeched and all or ? Istill wonder about the 54 con in 46th reloading handbook (lyman) 54 cal #533476 " does a good jod out of the Douglas 1x66 "! After I saw that german guys web on perc site (Billinghurst) I tryed that kind of mounting on a all wood recv and you8 get a lot more barrels to use, and if you use a top line liner in a stock barrel its going to cost125 / 150 but you can get awide choice of twist , I had a Rem Buff barrel shortened to 26" and 1 and 3/4' in 451 something to play with. the liners in stock barrels work very fine,if you get a good liner and fit it tight. Ive onley got one more guy to try let you know how he works out ( hes been sick) FW :front:

 

[jh45gun]

Jimbo check with Knight and see if they still have any barrels in stock for their MK8 switch barrel gun. This is not made anymore but they may have some barrels. That is what my underhammers are made out of the shotgun barrel and the rifle barrel. The rife barrel is a 1 in 28 inch fast twist barrel made for Knight by Green Mountain and is 54 cal and is a round barrel. It is a inline barrel but that would be ok as you could use the existing threads to thread it onto a receiver then add a nipple on the bottom of the barrel like I did. Jim

 

[faw3]

Youd think all of us working to find a faster barrel for this one rifle someone would put a hand full out of 45,50,54. Ive been looking at the inlines also I just have no idea how big the threads are ect and thought most if not all are round. Ive tryed and begged DEER CREEK to run out 50 of each, even with pre orders and throwing some of my own cash into doing it he is just to busy takeing care of what he builds now , it seems hard for him to get just the buggy blanks, ( I never asked about the longer ones the balance is just right on the buggy barrel. I did try a older DGW p[stol barrel 15/16 1x20 twist 5/8 thread 12'long ,Ive only got to play with it once in 54 cal and short maxies 3f I only got it up to 40grs dont know if I can get enough speed to make it good for anything over 50yds Keep us posted on how things are going lots of good ideas on this site Good Luck FW :front: :front:

 

[jimbo15563]

Choosing the barrel 5

I talked to Dave, my gunsmith on Friday. He thinks we should order the barrel from Ed Rayl. We talked about changing the configuration. The H&A underhammer action is octagonal and mikes at 1.200" across the flats. We want to make the barrel seamless with the action by starting it out 1.200 octagon for the first 12", then transitioning to round and tapering it down to 7/8" at the muzzle. It will be 32" long, with 1:36 twist and .007 depth rifling. Ed will crown it, Dave will breech and blue it.

It should resemble this barrel by Colerain with slightly different dimensions:

We think the case-hardened action with the blued barrel will look really good with matched dimensions. (Dave says it will be a little harder to build the long forestock, but he can handle it!)It will also give us the freedom to use any combination of sights/scope mounts we want.

I'll place the order Monday. I also think I'll get him to crown and rifle a short piece of scrap steel that I can use to pre-groove conicals.

Jimbo

 

[BS]

Jimbo, Have you calculated the weight of this barrel yet? Sounds very heavy for a hunting gun! I used a 32", 1" to round 54 out in the mountains of Colo. years ago and I thought it was too long. Barely fit the scabbord, hard to load while sitting, just too darn long. 28" or shorter is much nicer! :m2c:

 

[faw3]

Ill try to see if I can get the guy Deer Creek said touse in the mornning also,hes done a lot with those rifles so you just have to tell him what you want and he knows all that has to be done if I get a answer Ill get it on Mon night. Im still going to trust Lyman saying the 450 gr will work fine out to 100 yds (4 to 5 " for hunting 110grs 2f orRS putting out 1100 to 1200 ft lbs of energy at 1100 fps should deal with about anything,also will try to find out what the hold up is on those buggy barrels. :front:

 

[jimbo15563]

BS,

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, I have concerns about the weight. When finished, this rifle shouldn't weigh anymore than my .50 renegade flinter, which I carry during the PA primitive deer season. The underhammer action is very light, and the bigger caliber plus the taper should remove some weight. I'm going to equip it with a lightweight ramrod and a Safari Sling to make it easier to carry in the field.

Safari Sling

I want this rifle to have some weight to it to absorb recoil when shooting 400+ grain conicals. Also, the longer sighting plane will help accuracy when using a peep sight. I may not add the scope if I can shoot well enough without it.

Jimbo