Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle question

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Where did you get those figures from ? When these rifles were made the headquarters for Browning was in Salt Lake City Utah , My book on the history of Browning says there were 1000 of the presentation grade and 1000 of the standard grade , now this book could be wrong .10,000-15,000 is a big production run for this type of firearm , especially in 1978 when the modern muzzle loading business which we are part of was just getting rolling .
I have googled Arms Technology, Inc., of Salt Lake City and found they have 3 employees then again that could be wrong .
Lock making is a specialized business why not contact all the major lock makers and see if they made the locks under contract .
These rifles were sold in limited numbers all around the World ,
@Cutfinger

Thank you for your comments. As stated, those production figures are pure speculation, just rough estimates based on whatever information I could glean from the sources I could find.

There was an article in The Deseret News for February 17, 1979, by Arnold Irvine, which appeared to include quotes from an interview with Lee A. Farber, president and general manager of Arms Technology, Inc. (ATI). At that time, ATI had forty employees. Some of the production was "farmed out" to unidentified subcontractors "around the country," but final machining and assembly of the Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifles was done by ATI in Salt Lake City. At that time (1979), the article said this rifle had been in production for two years, and the Salt Lake City plant was producing 60 blackpowder rifles per week. They were hoping to ramp up production to 80 rifles per week. It is my understanding, primarily based on this article by Larry Potterfield, The $500,000 Rifle, that production ceased some time in 1983.

We're just playing with numbers here. Allowing for vacations, equipment failures, and so forth, we might figure fifty weeks of production per year. Maybe the production figures quoted in the article were a bit optimistic, so we can round down to fifty rifles per week, times fifty weeks in a year, would be 2,500 rifles per year, conservatively. Assuming they only produced half that many the first and last years of production (1977 and 1983, respectively) would give us the equivalent of six years. Six times 2,500 would equal 15,000.

I would like to repeat that these are estimates made by fooling around with the numbers found by myself and a very knowledgeable collector friend. Toby Bridges featured the JBMR in a short piece he wrote, entitled "Collecting Modern Day Muzzleloaders." In that article, he wrote, "I'm not sure how many of the rifles were built, an educated guess would be around 10,000." He did not provide any supporting evidence, but he is a professional "gun writer" and must have arrived at that number some way. However, he also perpetuated the rumor that the barrels were made by Green River Rifle Works, and I have found nothing to corroborate that.

I don't have any of the Blue Books on hand. I did find a Blue Book excerpt with a listing for the JBMR, but it did not show any production figures, except to say that 1,000 of the JBMR Commemorative rifles were made in 1978.

As stated previously, I've never owned a JBMR, and in fact have never shot one. Over the years, I've passed up opportunities to buy one. I was just a bit put off by some of the rifle's features, including the ram's horn on the snail. However, I've recently taken more of an interest in rifles of that era. I would respectfully disagree with the statement that the muzzleloading business was "just getting rolling" in 1978. John Baird's Hawken articles were published in Muzzle Blasts in the mid-sixties, and compiled into a book, Hawken Rifles, the Mountain Man's Choice, in 1968, I believe. This was followed by the introduction of the Thompson/Center "Hawken" in 1970, and then the 1972 movie, Jeremiah Johnson. There was an active buckskinning community in the sixties, but those three phenomena, Baird's book, the T/C Hawken, and the movie, set off a mountain man and Hawken craze. I have on my lap right now the June, 1973 issue of Muzzle Blasts, and can tell you it is packed with ads for businesses such as "House of Hawken," Green River Forge, Trail Guns Armory, Cherry Corners, Track of the Wolf, Green River Rifle Works, and Tingle Manufacturing Co., all of which sold either "plains rifles" or the parts or kits to build them. There is a custom built Hawken on the cover of the magazine. If anything, Browning was a bit behind the curve in starting production of their Hawken-esque Mountain Rifle. For more on that era, check out "The Heyday of the Hawken" on the GRRW Collector's website.

Anyway, it sounds as if @Pb Mark may keep his rifle and shoot it! That's great! That's what it's for.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
I was fortunate to acquire a pair of 50cal commemorative recently.
 

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The Browning website has a page showing dealers and gunsmiths who have parts for or provide service for discontinued and obsolete guns: Browning Support

The first three listed (A, B, and C) supposedly have (or had...) parts for the JBMR.

I was fortunate to acquire a pair of 50cal commemorative recently.
I remember seeing those on another thread recently, but it's good to see them again. The wood in both stocks is just outstanding.

Notchy Bob
 
Wow. Soaking in this knowledge.
This is the inside of the lock on mine.
Still learning how to navigate this site.
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"My wife wants me to sell something if I ever buy a new gun"

Microwave, dishwasher, TV, lots of things you can sell without parting with a gun. :D
I spent £5200 on a 450-400 double unmentionable for my 70 th birthday just had to have it. Oh dear what will joan say. As I opened the door with my gun under my arm she said can we go to Kingston there’s a lovely ring I would like in the pawn shop. Ok so I bought her an even better one , it was only £450. But a decent diamond so she got the ring and never mentions the 450- 400. I just spent £142 on an eBay engraver. Waste of money she went on and on. What do you want other people junk for. I just sneaked in a £860 bid on a ML at holts London auction 22 match , my birthday 79
It’s going to cost me, you cannot keep theses things secret for long.

I do wish you well Oh my wife hates guns and hunting. Tough !!!
 
They have a following and some view them as desirable.

For me, I have no interest in them as there are no parts to be had.

If I had one as you, I would sell it and buy one of the new Pedersolis' so I could shoot it and know I could get parts.

If your's breaks, what do you do with it? Kinda hard to sell a non-functioning rifle.

I guess the same as youd do for an original, and probably many customs, either have someone make one, or adapt an existing part to work.


Sounds like I should keep it and shoot it.

I thank everyone for the knowledge and letting me kick my thoughts around.

Commenting on the post from hawkeye2... I have replaced her microwave twice in the last six months. Seems like the second one at least works okay. They remind me of the guns... older quality craftsmanship is probably worth the little problems such as spare parts. Someone here will know who can file a spring for the JBMR if it ever does break.

I would be absolutely shocked if a part couldnt be made or adapted by a competent gunsmith or moderately talented amateur gun hobbyist. The availability of drop in parts is a relatively new thing in the sporting muzzle loading gun world. Most parts used to be handmade and fitted to the individual gun. Break a spring and even if you lived in the same town as the maker it may require time to make and fit a new part.

Despite having factory made parts for various guns of all types, many require fitting of many parts, it just doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me for whatever reason, though I guess I may be in the minority in that view.
 
"Despite having factory made parts for various guns of all types, many require fitting of many parts, it just doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me for whatever reason, though I guess I may be in the minority in that view."

Finding someone who can make parts at times is like finding BP and caps. Can be tough.
 
Lucky to have been able to keep able to have BP and caps. My only problem has been with the Remington #11's that used to be on the shelf always at Cabela's. I have a NAA Earl BP revolver that is built so tightly that they tell people in the instructions they require these specific caps. So far, they are correct. It binds with anything else I have tried.

back to this thread. I sent some additional lock pictures to Notchy Bob. Must have been a private message or another thread. I'm not in love with these computers as should be obvious.

I cocked that lock in the picture above to show the hammer throw distance for a different picture. Pretty difficult to cock and let back down outside of the stock. Very strong spring. My Lyman with the coil spring re-cocks itself for me when firing 90 grains of 3F... saves me some work...almost like a semiautomatic rifle lol.
 
"My wife wants me to sell something if I ever buy a new gun"

Microwave, dishwasher, TV, lots of things you can sell without parting with a gun. :D
I think many of us get asked why do you need another rifle or pistol by our wives.
One day when i get real brave i'm gunna ask my wife why she has so much jewelry & dresses & if she would let me sell some extras to get a new gun :dunno:
 
I had a look in my Blue Book of gun values and it said look in the Blue Book of Muzzle Loading gun values, which I don't have and had never heard of . I then looked in my Standard Catalogue Of Firearms , which says there were 1000 .50 centennial ones made in 1978 which makes sense as you only make centennial products for that year ,and the standard ones were the same ( Design ) as the centennials but were also made in 45 and 54 cal . If you read the book you could easily assume there were 1000 standard ones made . Brass furniture is just not mentioned .
 
@Pb Mark had sent me photos of the inside of the JBMR lock at full cock and with the hammer fully down. Maybe he can post those images here for the crew... They were good pictures.

Anyway, the innards of this lock are unusual, which might be expected of Browning. They do a lot of things their own way in the world of unmentionable guns, but it looks as if they designed this lock's inner workings from scratch. The free end of the mainspring bears directly on an "arm" protruding from the tumbler. This does have a little roller to reduce friction, but the length of this arm probably gives the hammer a lot of torque, to give the percussion cap a good hit, but the arc of the tumbler arm's swing is quite long. This results in the lower leg or free end of the mainspring being heavily compressed at full cock, and swinging down in an impressive arc when released. Another forum member provided a photo of his JBMR lock, and the mainspring actually lost contact with the tumbler arm when the hammer was fully down. Engineers, physicists, and metallurgists in the crowd are welcome to submit their own ideas, but I think these springs may fail due to the geometry of the lock requiring excessive compression and a sudden release. It may just be more than you can ask a spring to do. It would be great if a lockmaker would duplicate the hammer and plate of the JBMR lock, but with a more tried-and-true design for the mechanism.

In summary, it may not be a problem with the springs, but with the geometry of the lock mechanism itself stressing the springs too much.

That's my opinion. I hope the photos can be shared so some others can weigh in.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
Here are the lock pictures. The other thing is that the end of the box picture that was posted earlier shows all of the different configurations. It shows catalog numbers for all three calibers in Brass or Browned Steel. Also, the post about dry firing the lock and breaking the spring is an important post to me... The trigger is a single set trigger. Can be adjusted very lightly and strange to many folks probably. I sure can see that happening to some of these rifles!
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I remember losing sleep wanting a JB mountain rifle back when they were being made. Settled for a used T/C Hawken, then a Renegade, and never had the JB.
 
This is not relevant to the OP’s question but may be of interest. Here is the load chart from the original manual. Also of interest is that it talks about dry firing will flare the nipple to a point the cap will not fit. A small patch of leather or soft material should be placed in the hammer if dry firing is necessary. NOTE: there isn’t a warning of Lock damage by dry firing. (I guess there should have been)
 

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Notchy Bob,I think you are right on the geometry of the spring causing failure.I have heard that before,and have heard of a lot of shooters breaking 2or3 springs.I have a .54 browning and never worried about the spring,I would just get someone to fabricate one if needed.But getting that spring to last might be the problem.
 

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