• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Jug choke-What to expect?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

dbutch

58 Cal.
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,187
Reaction score
6
62.cal GM smooth bore 1" for T/C
will be sending in to get jug choked Full.
What kind of patterns should I expect? I have shot cylinder and x-full choke tubes in the past, looking for those with jug choke history for some help. Pattern pictures would help or percentages would work too.
I plan on using # 5 or 6 lead for turkeys
Thanks in advance,......Makeumsmoke
 
I jug choked a custom 11 ga. smoothie with a brake hone. Near as I can tell it is modified. My range is still 30 to 35 yds, but pattern much improved over open choke. I have patterned on turkey targets, but no pictures. Best patterns were 90 gr ffg 2 over powder felt wads, 2oz heavy shot #5, 1 over shot card. gave about 20 pellets in the kill zone on target.
 
GM 33”.62cal Flint Smoothbore barrel Jug Choked "Improved Cylinder PLUS"
The average pellet dispersion chart is using 2'x3' sheets of flip chart paper.

081608PatternTestCP6sImpCylPLUSJugC.jpg



GM 33”.62cal Flint Smoothbore barrel Jug Choked “FULL”
Hard lead #6s through a very small 3.5” heavy metal tuna can at 40 yards

040607-16No.jpg



GM 33”.62cal Flint Smoothbore barrel Jug Choked “FULL”
EcoTungsten(Niceshot) lead substitute”¦80 pellets on 8.5” x 11” target paper at 35 yards

082308EcoTungstentargetjpg.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing, Flintlock58 and Roundball, any body else with cyl. bore versus jug choking facts?
 
I had my cylinder bore New Englander jug choked to Skeet #2 (between Imp. Cyl. and Modified). That took it from around 40% at 30 yards to 55% at 30 yards.

This is a (small) rabbit target shot at 30 yards with 1-1/8 oz #4(!) in a 12 bore.

HPIM1187.jpg
 
Thanks Stumpkiller, 15 % improvement gotta like that. My barrel will be here this week, I plan on doing some patterning before I send it out to get jug choked for reference. If I can get 20 to 30 % improvement over cylinder bore I'll be happy.Working up a load is the fun part! Thanks again...........Happy shooting....smoke
 
CoyoteJoe did mine and I'm very pleased. I'm not sure if there's a limit on what you can squeeze out of a jug choke but I guess full choke is possible. As you say, working up a load pays off big time. I have been playing with #6 and #4, and I just swapped some #6 to GeneralJethro224 for a bunch of #5. Haven't had much time to pattern - but October upland season is a ways off yet.

I had been having better density with #4 than the #6, and I'm hoping the #5 will be the best of all.
 
Good morning
Sounds like there are some real improvements...
For my crowhunting I tried 6 shot first then 5 and finally 4... each has its advantage. Last time up NORTH here I had just about 10 loads of 4 left and about the same amout of 6. So I thought why not mix the two sizes and see what hapens. I patterned one load and either I became a better shot or my 69 likes the mix. Yhat was with 90 grains of 2F Goex. So you might give a couple "mix shot" loads a try.
 
Those of you who have had your smoothie jug choked...How did this effect the guns PRB accuracy? :hmm: I know each gun is different, but what is your experience? I would like a better pattern but not if it means messing up my PRB shooting. Basset
 
I did not do extensive testing...but prior to jugging a GM Flint smoothbore barrel, (smooth rife really with its rear sight) I could keep the PRBs in a 3" aim point sticker at 50 yards...after jug choking I could not.

I might have been able to improve group size by experimenting with different combinations of patches / balls / wads, but had no interest in wasting time & money as I'd jugged the barrel for use with shot loads
 
Basset said:
Those of you who have had your smoothie jug choked...How did this effect the guns PRB accuracy? :hmm: I know each gun is different, but what is your experience? I would like a better pattern but not if it means messing up my PRB shooting. Basset

DSCF3003.jpg


DSCF2128-1.jpg


Hay buddy,
I had Yote Joe do a full jug on mine and I get 83 percent at 40 yrds with 90 grns of ffg goex and one and a quarter ounce of # four shot.
As for RB accuracy well once I got rid of my over powder wads(thanks for the advice Mike Brooks) and seated my ball and patch directly on the powder I got great accuracy(for a smooth bore).
So good in fact I got second this weekend competing in the MT man saunter.
I hit all the steel targets from 25 to fourty yards.
P.T. Coyote Joe, he is a Master gun smith and has made a really cool jug choking tool and his prices are criminal(cheap that is).
:thumbsup:
 
Thanks for sharing Green mt.Boy... Was that powder can hit with your #4 shot load at 40 yards?
 
That's pretty remarkable with #4s out of a bare bore at 40 yards.

Was the paper target shot with #4s as well...has a lot of pellet holes...what size shot charge of #4s were you using?
 
Hay Roundball,
Sombody fowarded your post to me, for some reason I am not getting your post.
I am shooting an ounce and a quarter of number four at fourty yrds thanks to Coyote Joe's ausom job of jug choking.
I am using 90 grns a ffg goex, some may feel a bit hot out of a 20 guage but after much tinkering it gave me the best group and as you can see from the goex can the best penitration.
The "83" percent is got from shooting two groups from said distance out of a 42 inch barrel which is standard practice when shooting for pattern.
Hope this clears things up buddy,
good shooting.
Nathan :hatsoff:
 
Here is the same can from the back side.
As you can see full penitration is a bit lacking from all pellets that hit the can.
This was only one shot at 40 yrds not two.
As I stated before when I was shooting for pattern on paper.
Every turkey I have killed with the jug choke has been at 30 yrds or less and it knocked the manure out of them.
DSCF3007.jpg
 
I think Nathan won't mind if I add some clarification on pattern testing as to how he and I do this. Some might be thinking two shots at 83% really means only 41.5% each. No, we divide pellet hits by the total number of pellets fired to calculate a percentage. In this instance he fired 1 1/4 ounce of #4 shot, which runs 169 pellets each, so the total hits would be divided by 338 to calculate the percentage.
If you read the books on shotguns they will tell you that you should shoot at least five patterns, some say 10, to get an average for each load tested. No way am I going to lay on my belly counting all those little holes ten times, or even five! So I shortcut the process to get results that are indicative, though maybe not precise. Since patterns do vary a bit from shot to shot I see no advantage in obtaining a precise average, it will still be just an average and won't tell you precisely what you'll get on the one shot you're about to squeeze off. Add to that the facts that in the field you are shooting at random estimated ranges and that sometimes, perhaps often, you may just flat miss, and we see that shotgunning is just not a game of precision.
But I also realize that a single shot leaves too much to chance. I don't always place my shots exactly dead center with a rifle so I know there will be some variation in shot placement with a smoothbore as well. Thus I choose to fire two shots on a single target to get an average of two, which helps balance out some of the variables. I prefer a target at least 40x40 inches.
In examining the target I will just eye ball it and try to discern the center of the pattern. I have a piece of an old yardstick with a pivot pin at one end and holes for a felt tip pen spaced at 10.5" and 15" from the pivot point. This I use as a compass to draw circles of 21" and 30" diameter. The 21" circle has just half the area of the 30" circle and if the pattern were perfectly even there would be the same number of pellets in the inner circle as in the rim of the 30". That tells me if there is a central hole in the pattern or if there is central thickening of the pattern. Cylinder bores often have a central hole but with any degree of choke tighter than skeet or improved cylinder there will be central thickening since the choke not only pulls in pellets from outside the 30" circle but also pulls pellets from the outer edge of the 30" into the central 21" circle. Thus a pattern of 50% in the 30" may indeed show 25% in the center and 25% in the outer ring. With a modified pattern of 60% in 30" it will be more like 35-40% in the center and 20-25% in the ring. A 70% full choke will be more like 50-55% center and only 15-20% in the outer ring. So the center of the full choke pattern has twice as many pellets as does the skeet choke pattern but the outer rim is becoming quite sparse. That is why the full choke can kill at much greater distance but only so long as the shooter can actually CENTER the pattern on the game. Easy enough to do on a standing turkey, not at all easy on a passing dove!
This is a pretty verbose explanation but in as few words as I could manage to hit the main points, thanks for sticking it out if you have done so, and if not, I don't blame you. :haha:
 
To have a barrel jug choked full what would me the minimum barrel wall thickness necessary. I have a 20ga smoothie with what looks like a pretty thin barrel that I sure wish I could have jug choked.
 
Eric: A " Point " is equal to one thousandth of an inch(.001"), so to have a full choke barrel you have to have 40 points of constriction, or 20 thousandths of an inch, in theory, on each barrel wall. A lot of thin walled barrels don't have that much metal on the walls. You would want to leave at least half that amount to protect the barrel from bulging, and I believe most makers would like to have at least as much metal left in the wall as the amount of metal removed.

These are NOT constants: The amount of " choke" needed for a particular gun and gauge varies from gun to gun, and gauge to gauge; The amount of metal needed to be left in the barrel varies with the quality of the steel used; The load you intend to shoot in the barrel can also have a lot to do with the final pattern performance of any choke you put in the barrels; even the length of the throat coming out of the "Jug" affects pattern density, and uniformity.

Talk to whoever is going to do the jug choking, and he can best advise you how much choke he recommends you can safely put in a particular barrel, after he examines the barrel.
 
I've set an arbitrary minimum thickness at .050" for full choke. Modern barrels meet that easily but most old original guns have very thin barrel walls at the muzzle, especially the old side by sides. V.M.Starr did quite a business in jug choking old guns back in the 1950's and 60's and I really don't know how he got away with it, their barrels being so thin.
 
Back
Top