Kal. 50 smoothie testedmwith shot

[PreglerD]

Hello,

today I tsted my original cal.50 smoothie with shotgun load. It was 50 grs swiss 2, 10mm lubed wad, 300 grs 2,5mm shot, 3mm wad. I shoot at a range of 20 m at a turkey target, more than 2/3 of the shots were on the "body" of the turkey, looks very good. Tommorrow I will have a hunt at ducks.

 

[hawkeye1755]

Waidmanns Heil.
:hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

In the States, we tend to want our core pattern to hit a much smaller target on turkey, namely the head and neck area. and we count the number of hits in this area rather than look at the hits on the whole body of the turkey target. The 2/3 of your shot hitting the body is about what would be expected using that small a bore, and shooting an open cylinder bore gun. The shot size you are using is too small, as it is #7 shot under our system. You need to use something like #4, #5, or #6 at the very minimum in size. #4 is .013" in diameter; #5 is .012" in diameter, and #6 is .011" in diameter. Your 2.5 mm comes out at just under .010 in diameter, and it runs out of gas pretty quickly. You certainly would not want to shoot a turkey at much beyond 20 meters with such a load.

We don't like body shots because you really have to use very large shot to get through the feathers, and then the muscles to get to the spine, lungs, or heart to kill the bird. That destroys a lot of edible breast meat. So, we try to take broadside shots at the head and neck, expecting some of the shot to break the neck, or otherwise interrupt the nervous system. We tend to skip out on shots at the heart and lungs. Now, archery turkey hunters do shoot for the heart and lungs, here. A single broadhead, even when it slices through a lot of the breast, does not seem to destroy much of the meat.

 

[Slamfire]

I worked on my .56 Renegade yesterday. Started with a run of the mill 28 gauge load, 2 drams FFg (55 grains volume) and 3/4 oz of #6 shot (the same volume). I used one 9/16" overpowder wad cut from an orange juice carton, and 1/2 of a 28 gauge fiber cushion wad soaked in Bore Butter. Topped it all off with a 9/16" overshot card cut from a sheet of gasket material. There was some opening of the pattern on the lower right side, big enough for a dove to get through.
I increeased the load to 2 1/4 drams (62 grains), and 7/8 oz. of shot, and got pretty much the same pattern. I did not use a paper shot cup, and will try one cut from a heavy grocery bag to see if it is any better.
I had previously removed the front and rear sights, and substituted a lower front sight with a red bead glued to it. The gun shoots way too low, about 4" at 25 yards, and the comb smacks my cheek pretty hard, as my head isn't down on the stock properly. I'll see if I can find something lower. :winking:

 

[swquiro]

Kirrmeister,

Waidmanns Heil! Ich drueck den Daumen

 

[PreglerD]

I can't believe that. In Germany the effect of shotgun hunting depends on the nerve shock at the animal. It is not necessary that the shots penetrate the skin or fethers. The number of shots impacting at a bright square over the whole body is necessary and not hits from some single shot corns, so many small shot is needed and not less big shot.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Kirrmeister. you make a very good point and one not often heard in the U.S. I too have often observed that effect, birds dropped stone dead by multiple hits, no one of which would have been lethal. Some have theorized that 8 or 10 small pellets are much more effective than 3 or 4 larger pellets even though the total energy is greater for the large shot.
I recall an occasion when I was hunting doves with a 20ga. skeet gun. I handloaded one ounce of #9 shot for those small birds. I walked into some woods not knowing there was a large pond hidden in there. Ducks rose from the pond, circled and came back in. I dropped 5 ducks with 6 shots before I realized I was still shooting the #9's, but every bird hit dropped dead in mid flight. I had some 3" mag loads of #6 shot which are supposed to be much better for ducks so I continued shooting with those. I hit 5 more ducks but four fluttered down wounded and had to be finished on the water. I again used the #9's to finish off those wounded with the 6's and one shot per bird did the job.
All of these shots were close, no more than 20 yards, but clearly one ounce of nines out performed an ounce and a quarter of sixes. That is totally contrary to conventional wisdom but that is how it played out in this case.
I think that with the small caliber gun you are shooting you are well served with the small pellets. They will have adequate penetration at 25 yards, where as larger pellets would not give adequate pattern coverage. Given the small caliber and cylinder bore of your gun, I'd say your chosen shot size is about optimum to get all you can expect of that gun. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you will look at the pellet energy chart in the Lyman Shotshell Handbook, you will see that the distance from the muzzle to the bird is all important. Joe, the reason your #9 shot was killing ducks so well is that they were within 20 yds. The longest target to hit at Skeet is only 22 yds. which is why #9 shot is used in that game when the winds are not too bad. The same would be true of small shot hitting a turkey. As long as the bird is at short range, all those little pellets combined carry much more energy than a few large pellets. They do kill by shock, and not usually by breaking the neck, or penetrating the spine, or head.

For readers who don't have the Lyman Handbook, #9 shot, leaving the barrel at 1200 fps. has 2.40 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle, and 1.12 ft. lbs of energy per pellet at 20 yds. Assume 1 lbs per pellet in ft. lbs energy for our purposes. If you can hit that bird within 20 yds with 30 pellets, you are hitting it with 30 ft. lbs. of energy, and that should stop it. Whether its just stunned, or is actually killed you will have to determine by examining the bird. You don't want a large bird like a turkey reviving while you are carrying it out of the field, or in your car!

Now consider the energy of #4 shot( .13" diameter) fired at 1200 fps. It starts at the muzzle with 10.36 ft. lbs. of energy, and at 20 yds has 6.29 ft lbs. It would require only 5 pellets to hit that turkey to produce the same energy effect on the bird as 30 pellets of #9 shot!

Or #5 Shot( .12" Diameter ) at 1200 fps, it has 8.22 Ft. lbs. of energy for each pellet, and at 20 yds, still retains 4.78 ft lbs. of energy. About 7 pellets will deliver that 30 ft. lbs. of energy on a turkey.

Or #6 Shot(.11") diameter) at 1200 fps, It has 6.20 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle and at 20 yds., retains 3.49 ft. lbs. of energy. About 9 pellets will produce that same 30 ft. lbs. of energy on that turkey.

From my own experience, you can definitely tell the difference when a bird is hit with different shot size in the air. One of the first times I went pheasant hunting, a bird got up in front of me in standing corn. I fired and hit it with an 1 1/4 of #6 shot, but the two guys I was with, to my left, also shot the bird at about the same time. The bird was maybe 15 yards in front my barrel, about 22 yds for the man next to me, and 30 yds for the third man. #2 man hit the bird with a similar load of #5 shot, and #3 man hit it with a similar load of #4 shot. The three loads of shot hit the bird before it began to fall to earth. My shot caused feathers to fly, and the bird's wings to begin to fold. The #5s caused it to flip over, and more feathers to fly. And the #4s smacked it like a tennis racket hitting a ball and knocked it out of the air. It was pretty badly torn up. I remember letting one of the other men take the bird, and saying something to them about my zone of fire. They had never hunted with me, I was carrying my father's single shot shotgun, and since they had never seen me shoot, they were a little quick, lets say, to " back me up ".

MY recommendation remains to use a larger sized shot when hunting turkey. #7 shot, ( .10" diameter) is only occasionally sold here in the U.S. but appears mostly in international trap loads delivers 4 ft pounds of energy at the muzzle using the 1200 fps loading, and 2 ft lbs. at 20 yds per pellet. That would give you twice the pellet energy as the #9 shot, but a third of the energy delivered by the #4 shot, at 20 yds.

Those layers of turkey feathers can take a lot of energy and bounce off the shot- its been seen. A friend of mine worked up loads for his 20 ga. smoothbore fowler with the large shot, and the small #6 shot. He decided on the #6 shot, because his gun was putting so many pellets on the head and neck target he was using at 25 yds. He killed his turkey with it, called in to about 20 yds. I think we counted 12 hits on the head and neck. I don't think he was shooting enough powder to reach that 1200 fps. load, but even at 3 ft lbs of energy at that range, he hit the head and neck with 36 lbs of energy, and at least one of those pellets broke the neck.

Best Wishes on a successful hunt.

 

[PreglerD]

Your opinion may be certainly right for hunting on turkeys. These birds are very big and so it is no more possible to kill them by nerve shock with shots. But smaller birds could be killed in this way and without meat damage. In Germany the biggest bird we hunt is the grey goose. for this bird we use 12 gauge shotshells with 4 mm shot. I wonder about the wide ranges you are hunting with shotguns. Here the maximum range is about 30 to 40 m and shot from 2,5 to 3,5 mm. even fox and rabbit are hunted with this shot.

 

[Slamfire]

With extra full chokes, and heavy loads of large shot, we shoot turkey anywhere inside of 50 yards. As was pointed out before, hits in the brain or spinal column are what we strive for. Turkey's are quick to flee, if only wounded, so we like to kill them with the first shot, hence the head/neck shot. :v