Keeping Walker cylinder turning freely

[Dexterado]

Just curious, how do you Walker shooters keep your cylinder turning freely during a shooting session? My wedge is just barely pushed through, and it rotates freely for the first six shots, then starts to stiffen. I don’t have this issues with my other 2 revolvers. I feel like I may be missing something on the Walker. I only use oil on the arbor and cylinder face, so maybe that’s where I’m messing up?

 

[45D]

Just curious, how do you Walker shooters keep your cylinder turning freely during a shooting session? My wedge is just barely pushed through, and it rotates freely for the first six shots, then starts to stiffen. I don’t have this issues with my other 2 revolvers. I feel like I may be missing something on the Walker. I only use oil on the arbor and cylinder face, so maybe that’s where I’m messing up?

2 things -
1- Wedge "barely pushed through" means barrel assy is loose so probably a lot of fouling from too big of a "gap" at cyl / forcing cone getting between arbor and cylinder (the thin oil / grease everyone wants to use for some reason can't stop it . . . ). Look up "short arbor" and have fun!!!

2 - The grease should have some consistency to BLOCK fouling rather than the afore mentioned "thin" stuff !

Fix these 2 things and you can shoot max loads all day no problem.

Mike

 

[Dexterado]

2 things -
1- Wedge "barely pushed through" means barrel assy is loose so probably a lot of fouling from too big of a "gap" at cyl / forcing cone getting between arbor and cylinder (the thin oil / grease everyone wants to use for some reason can't stop it . . . ). Look up "short arbor" and have fun!!!

2 - The grease should have some consistency to BLOCK fouling rather than the afore mentioned "thin" stuff !

Fix these 2 things and you can shoot max loads all day no problem.

Mike

 

[Dexterado]

2 things -
1- Wedge "barely pushed through" means barrel assy is loose so probably a lot of fouling from too big of a "gap" at cyl / forcing cone getting between arbor and cylinder (the thin oil / grease everyone wants to use for some reason can't stop it . . . ). Look up "short arbor" and have fun!!!

2 - The grease should have some consistency to BLOCK fouling rather than the afore mentioned "thin" stuff !

Fix these 2 things and you can shoot max loads all day no problem.

Mike

I see, so thicker grease is the way to do it? I have some over the ball grease that I don’t use. Maybe greasing the arbor with it is a better option?

 

[wiscoaster]

...... I only use oil on the arbor and cylinder face, so maybe that’s where I’m messing up?

Agreed with @45D that's where your main problem lies. And you don't need to use oil on the cylinder face. Just keep it clean so it clears the forcing cone.

 

[wiscoaster]

.......Maybe greasing the arbor with it is a better option?

Research "chamber lube" and grease the arbor with that stuff.

 

[Ed C.]

Follow @45D's advice and that will cure one of the Walkers cylinder rotation problems. The other problem with Walkers is they do not shed spent caps very well and they will often jam between the cylinder and shield which causes you to have to stop and fiddle with them vs my '58 Remingtons which causes me almost zero problems with caps. I use grease on all my revolver cylinder pins, run a close gap on the guns I can control and have no problems with cylinder fouling.

 

[Dexterado]

Follow @45D's advice and that will cure one of the Walkers cylinder rotation problems. The other problem with Walkers is they do not shed spent caps very well and they will often jam between the cylinder and shield which causes you to have to stop and fiddle with them vs my '58 Remingtons which causes me almost zero problems with caps. I use grease on all my revolver cylinder pins, run a close gap on the guns I can control and have no problems with cylinder fouling.

I have noticed that with the caps. I don’t shoot it all that often, but I did today. I really like my ROA and my 1860 sheriff.36.

 

[M. De Land]

Just curious, how do you Walker shooters keep your cylinder turning freely during a shooting session? My wedge is just barely pushed through, and it rotates freely for the first six shots, then starts to stiffen. I don’t have this issues with my other 2 revolvers. I feel like I may be missing something on the Walker. I only use oil on the arbor and cylinder face, so maybe that’s where I’m messing up?

I haven't really shot my Walker enough to have settled on an extended fouling control but the bit I have shot it she has responded well to 1/8th inch Mathews soak lubed, felt wads, under ball or bullet.
I much prefer the volume consistency that lube soaked felt wads bring to each chamber as opposed to the ever changing lube volume of greased over balls or bullets. The bullets of course have the benefit of the wad lube plus their own grease groove lube for each shot.
The balls are making much less area contact ( mid-drift ring) with the bore wall and may not need as much lubing.

 

[Smokerr]

Go with 45D as he is both a tuner and a shooter.

I have some NRA syn grease that works well. I don't have issues.

I am overstepping a bit here as that is 45D expertise, but.........

I think you should check your forcing cone to cylinder spacing. Per 45D (all hail) you want a good tap on the wedge. Your arbor may be so short that you are not getting the lock up on the Wedge/Frame you need.

 

[D Yager]

You most definitely need to check the arbor length. The wedge needs to seat firmly. Other things that help are addition of a cap post and action shield. Once the arbor is properly seating the barrel/cylinder gap can be set around.002 to .004. This will keep the fouling going down the barrel rather than all over the cylinder and building up where it doesn't need to be. The other issue with the Walker and the Dragoons is the frame stretch from the short arbor. This can happen from shooting full house loads on a short arbor. Symptoms are a loose wedge that won't tighten and a huge barrel/cylinder gap. It gets a lot more labor intensive to fix it when the whole problem was an easy to fix with a simple shim.

 

[Smokerr]

Keep in mind if you shim your arbor too long (not doing the correct fix like I have not) you can also get a wider gap.

You can deshim or grind shims to fit. 45D has some fantastic fixes that are precision. I would love to send him my gun but I would have to do it well in advance and then can't shoot until I get it back, sigh.

 

[M. De Land]

You most definitely need to check the arbor length. The wedge needs to seat firmly. Other things that help are addition of a cap post and action shield. Once the arbor is properly seating the barrel/cylinder gap can be set around.002 to .004. This will keep the fouling going down the barrel rather than all over the cylinder and building up where it doesn't need to be. The other issue with the Walker and the Dragoons is the frame stretch from the short arbor. This can happen from shooting full house loads on a short arbor. Symptoms are a loose wedge that won't tighten and a huge barrel/cylinder gap. It gets a lot more labor intensive to fix it when the whole problem was an easy to fix with a simple shim.

Only problem with that theory is that Walkers have always had a reputation of wedge consumption from the beginning of production and the originals all started life with arbor end fitting !

 

[M. De Land]

Just curious, how do you Walker shooters keep your cylinder turning freely during a shooting session? My wedge is just barely pushed through, and it rotates freely for the first six shots, then starts to stiffen. I don’t have this issues with my other 2 revolvers. I feel like I may be missing something on the Walker. I only use oil on the arbor and cylinder face, so maybe that’s where I’m messing up?

If your going to turn the length of the cylinder in a lathe make sure you mount it between centers in the arbor hole (open frame guns) and don't count on the external cylinder circumference to be coaxial to the arbor or base pin hole in solid frame guns.
The chambers will be orientated to the arbor or base pin hole coaxially but not necessarily will the outside circumference of the cylinder especially after sanding,buffing and polishing in preparation for bluing.

 

[45D]

Only problem with that theory is that Walkers have always had a reputation of wedge consumption from the beginning of production and the originals all started life with arbor end fitting !

Well, we don't really know the "WHY" of the wedge consumption. Could be because of material used and/or the same "thought process" some have today that "thumb pressure" is all you need. Clearly, it's not when shooting max loads. The Walker was a much different animal than its predecessor where one may get away with "thumb pressure".
Clearly today, with the material used along with the "other possibilities" available, the platform can "far exceed" what was previously thought.

Mike

 

[shootemup58]

Only problem with that theory is that Walkers have always had a reputation of wedge consumption from the beginning of production and the originals all started life with arbor end fitting!

Where did you get this information? With only 1100 walkers made and less than 200 surviving the wedge consumption theory doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Smokerr]

Yea, if you are going to put that out, you need to list citations.

I read it on the Internet is no more helpful that, well I was talking to an old timer................. we have enough Urban legends drifting around.

Bad Karma put paid to the issue in speculators mind about the Colt Arbor intent. Logic was all that was needed but sometimes you have to go overkill to stop the speculation end.

 

[M. De Land]

Where did you get this information? With only 1100 walkers made and less than 200 surviving the wedge consumption theory doesn't sound right to me.

Some time ago I read a Service Ordnance report as I recall, some one posted on line, from the period, requesting repairs of the Walkers and also additional wedge requests. As Walker wedges have always been captive to the barrel group I don't believe that loss was the issue but rather distortion.
As far as I know the Walkers would have been supplied with cleaning as well as reassembly information from Colt which would have precluded wedge seating by thumb pressure only .

 

[Ed C.]

Some time ago I read a Service Ordnance report as I recall, some one posted on line, from the period, requesting repairs of the Walkers and also additional wedge requests. As Walker wedges have always been captive to the barrel group I don't believe that loss was the issue but rather distortion.
As far as I know the Walkers would have been supplied with cleaning as well as reassembly information from Colt which would have precluded wedge seating by thumb pressure only .

So much for instruction from Colt. Supposedly many of the cylinder failures were due to recommended powder charges being exceeded and the conical bullets being loaded in backwards.

 

[Dude]

Were the Walker engineering drawings lost in the fire of 1864? If we had some sort of specs for the gun we'd know if attention was paid to arbor fit. Has anyone reverse engineered an original? Seems that would have been part of recreating the current copies, though whether those measurements were taken would depend on the guy measuring. As I recall, the Italian copies were duplicated from smuggled-in parts.

Anyway, saying the original wedges got hammered to death because of short arbors is speculation since we really don't know.

And the wedges aren't held in any more firmly than the rest, so I could imagine if not wedged solidly, they could disappear in the confusion of battle. Or maybe they just weren't hard enough to withstand the forces.

Yes, current Walkers are known to demolish wedges, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the first generation also had that problem.