Kentucky/Pennsylvania Rifle Identification

[behlftball]

Hi,

I came across this old percussion rifle. I have been trying to find more information about its maker. Does anyone have any additional information? It is marked "C. Baker" which I understand is a common maker of percussion locks.

Here are some photos...
http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/behlftball/library/?sort=3...

If you need anything else please let me know!

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Claude Mathis]

Might be a conversion from flint?

 

[behlftball]

Yes, that was what I was thinking. Is there any way to tell its origin/maker?

 

[suzkat]

Nice early rfle. Any barrel marks? Caliber? Barrel length? Swear I've seen that patchbox before. Nice find

 

[behlftball]

Hi,

I cannot find any markings on the barrel. The barrel length is 40 inches while the overall length is 55 inches. Caliber seems to be about .50. Hope that helps!

 

[KABAR2]

Lock may be an English import.... so unless there are barrel markings ......

 

[MacRob46]

Really very difficult to tell anything from your photos. A full length view would be helpful. My mistake - clicking on a couple of your photos produced an overview. Even so, I cannot tell much about it but do agree it might have started as a flintlock. However, a lot of converted locks were put on rifles in the early 19th c. which were never flintlocks in the first place.

 

[vtbuck223]

That is a very interesting patch box...keep looking and you will likely find a region and possibly a maker. Is it me...or is that rear site really far forward? Possibly a replacement lock altogether at time of conversion from flint to percussion...due to what seems to be a poor fit. Nice piece and thanks for posting.

 

[54ball]

Features I see

drum

Flint lockplate marked Baker, maybe E or G Baker a English lock maker. The lock was most certainly flint at one time as it has a brass rivet at the frizzen pivot and a hole for the frizzen spring.

The inlet has gaps around the lock but to me it looks like it opened up due to wood shrinkage and age rather than a replacement lock. Look ho much the wood has shrunk around the butt plate at the toe.

It has wood removed for gooseneck flint cock clearance above the lockplate.

Two lock bolts, another clue of the flint era.

larger caliber

These features alone tell me that most likely this rifle was a flintlock.

I would guess about 1820 or so.

50 caliber is pretty large for that era.

Overall style looks to me to be 1820 or later.

Note how far out the rear sight is, was it shortened or was it made for a older shooter? :hmm:

The thick wrist, low comb and severe drop make me think of the Bedford County region. I'm not saying it's a Bedford but it may have come from close to that area.

I'm no expert... but that's what I see.

 

[Zonie]

I don't see anything to indicate the lockplate is from a flintlock.

In AMERICAN GUN MAKERS, L.D.Satterlee, Major Arcadi Gluckman,1940, Otto Ulbrich Co., Inc., there are a number of Bakers listed.

Among them:
"BAKER, C. - Unidentified. Marking on the lock of a percussion sporting rifle."

 

[suzkat]

I'm with Zonie on that. Lockplate looks always percussion to me, but I think the rifle was originally flint. I'm hoping to see a closeup of the sideplate and cheek. Looks like it's been untouched for years. My wife would say "let me polish that, it would be so much prettier"

 

[vtbuck223]

Yes...please more pics....and it would be great to see the rear ramrod entry as well. I assume there is a front site? Just can't see one at all in the pics. I really like the simple engraving on the patch box.

 

[behlftball]

Hi guys! I uploaded a bunch of photos (via the original link). Please let me know if there is anything else you would like to see. Photos can be enlarged by clicking on them.

Thanks!

 

[vtbuck223]

behlftball....just curious....how does the patch box lid release?

 

[Wes/Tex]

I find it interesting that some time in the past, somebody replaced the front sight with a brass insert in the dovetail. Wish I knew what sort of side plate it had, the inlet opening looks like a crouching frog...well sort of! Something abut that gun says "trade gun" to me but can't say specifically why!!

 

[behlftball]

The patch box actually snaps into place. There is a hook on the part that swings out and the catch on the inside actually moves to snap it into place.

 

[vtbuck223]

I was thinking....hidden release...which might explain why it looks like someone has tried to pry it open a few times....

 

[54ball]

I hate to flip flop but your new photos provide some more info.... What I thought was the cutout for the flint cock is a broken area of the stock. So this rifle may have always been percussion.

Also the low comb and stock shape is also found in some areas outside of Pennsylvania like West Virginia.

 

[vtbuck223]

behlftball.... I have thumbed through my meager collection of resources on the subject...certain that I had seen a similar patch box somewhere...but did not find one. It must have been online somewhere. The patch box finial may be a variation on the daisy...it does look like a flower getting ready to bloom. Of course... if we were discussing this as a piece of "fine art" someone would have invariably suggested that it is quite phallic....(If you have read the discussion on another forum this will make more sense.) This is a very interesting piece...and I am surprised that there aren't more thoughts on it....keep looking and I am sure you will find some answers. Please...let us know what you find...also...any chance of getting a close up pic of just the rear ramrod entry pipe?

 

[gpierce1601]

Joseph Mills & Peter White, of Colerain Township, PA, (1820's) both used the large
"man in the moon" inlay...and Mills used it above the cheek piece on several of his rifles.