Kibler Breach Plug

[Uncle Miltie]

Just the same as removing a nut from a bolt. Lefty loosey, righty tighty.

Always leaves marks and sometimes damage.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Always leaves marks and sometimes damage.

No it doesn’t.

 

[2 shots]

Always leaves marks and sometimes damage.

not when you use the PROPER tools. a large vise and a pipe wrench are not the proper tools.

 

[Kansas Kid]

I think you said the screw is off to the side and possibly between barrel wall and ball? I would be concerned about it scoring the bore if shot out or removed to the front. The rice barrel jaws and wrench work well. I imagine it’s still fouled from shooting so you might clean it best you can and get something done quickly.
Surely someone close to is competent to Debreech it. You may call Kibler to see if the touch hole threads clear the breech plug threads or else the liner will need to be removed first.

 

[FlinterNick]

No it doesn’t.

It certainly does not leave marks if done right

 

[brewyak]

I was at a match today shooting a .32 SMR. I have this rifle for competition, and the balls and ticking fit TIGHT. On about my fourth shot I got a flash, and then another, and I picked the hole, and then another…

So I went back to my table to pull the ball. I got it started and pulled, and half the threads broke off the ball puller in my range rod. Now I have to open the breach. There actually looks like a micro weld on one side of the breach.

Are these designed to come off at all?

I have an SMR in a 45. Had the same thing happen to me last summer. Threads broke off on the puller. I tried everything. I ended up pulling out the touchhole liner and was able to push the ball forward enough to get some powder behind it. Screwed the liner in enough and shot it out. Then replaced the liner

 

[FlinterNick]

I was at a match today shooting a .32 SMR. I have this rifle for competition, and the balls and ticking fit TIGHT. On about my fourth shot I got a flash, and then another, and I picked the hole, and then another…

So I went back to my table to pull the ball. I got it started and pulled, and half the threads broke off the ball puller in my range rod. Now I have to open the breach. There actually looks like a micro weld on one side of the breach.

Are these designed to come off at all?

First things first breech plug removal is not something that needs to be done often, stuck balls are one of the few moments that you may need to.

Always remember if there’s powder in there, don’t hit the breech with a torch or anything stupid, its a good idea to try to neutralize the powder with some water through the vent

Look for your witness marks on the bottom

, always try to remove the ball with a ball puller, it that does not work your best options are.

Send to a gunsmith who builds BP guns and can remove a plug to get the ball out, if you’re not confident you can do the job yourself.

I’m not going to sit here and advocate how easy it is to remove a breech plug because people will call my advise dangerous, but it is very easy to do without scratching up the barrel badly. When I’m building i often have to remove plugs.

You need a vise, a large crescent wrench and aluminum shim for the barrel. My vise has aluminum pads

Place the shim on the flats, for a round barrel like the charleville barrel I’m working on in my picture, place the shim on the flat and tightly secure the barrel, and it does not turn.

Some barrels of course are tougher especially if not cared for.


And turn it loose, remove the plug , dump the powder.

Use a wooden dowel to tap out with a mallet I use a wooden mallet, tap the ball toward the muzzle not toward the breech, a little grease down the bore will help.

 

[FlinterNick]

I have an SMR in a 45. Had the same thing happen to me last summer. Threads broke off on the puller. I tried everything. I ended up pulling out the touchhole liner and was able to push the ball forward enough to get some powder behind it. Screwed the liner in enough and shot it out. Then replaced the liner

Yea compressed air, setting off a small explosion to move the ball….. that wont damage the barrel… but using a wrench to remove a threaded plug ? ….. (a lot of sarcasm in this).

 

[FlinterNick]

not when you use the PROPER tools. a large vise and a pipe wrench are not the proper tools.

Most BP guns you can easily remove the breech some you may need a special type of clamp, round barrels can be a pain.

Most of the time aluminum shim does the job or even sheet brass or copper will do fine. Some make a special wooden clamp with Rosen. To grip.

Clay smith uses wooden vise jaws with a damp leather wrap to shim

The real trick to getting the plug off is to use anti seize graphite grease on the threads so it can be rather easily removed at some point. (Not often of course).

 

[FlinterNick]

There are other ways to get that ball out without removing the breech plug. Try searching the forum for "dry ball" threads. Removing the breech plug should be your LAST option.

Why would be a last option ? Breech plugs are threaded for a reason, so they can be installed and removed.

It should be done less than often but a stuck ball is one of those moments.

If you’re a BP hobbiest and you build kits, you should know how to remove a breech plug.

Maybe you can’t turn a wrench, i suggest a gym membership haha

 

[FlinterNick]

Mine has machine marks on it that look like the finest of TIG welds at a glance but aren't. I wouldn't say anything for certain though. They've switched barrel makers and if the rifle came from someone else then you never know what was done before you got it.

Tig weld a breech plug ?!

I would not shoot that gun if that’s true.

No welding tool should go near a barrel ever.

If a barrel needs a welding job I would consider getting a new barrel.

If it’s a cosmetic surface weld to hide a seam okay but the person doing that job is carrying a lot of liability

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Tig weld a breech plug ?!

I would not shoot that gun if that’s true.

No welding tool should go near a barrel ever.

If a barrel needs a welding job I would consider getting a new barrel.

If it’s a cosmetic surface weld to hide a seam okay but the person doing that job is carrying a lot of liability

I said they look like it at a glance but are NOT welds, just machining marks.

 

[SDSmlf]

Nothing wrong or all that difficult removing a breech plug from a barrel with the correct tools, actually a normal task when building a gun. I don’t know if the OP has a Rice or Green Mountain barrel on their gun, but I have found the GM factory installed breech plugs much easier to remove than those installed by Rice. Also do not know if the OP’s breech plug was installed by the barrel maker or Kibler. That said, the mere fact that the OP questioned whether or not the breech plug was designed to come off tells me removal is above their current pay scale and should not attempt it at this time.

Are these designed to come off at all?

Imagine opinions will vary….

 

[Mike in FL]

Why not? Removing a breech plug is rather simple.

Maybe simple, maybe not. I'm just saying it would be an absolute last resort FOR ME. Sounds like you have the experience and confidence to do it.

 

[FlinterNick]

Maybe simple, maybe not. I'm just saying it would be an absolute last resort FOR ME. Sounds like you have the experience and confidence to do it.

What kind of experience does someone need to unscrew a bolt? Can you change a car tire?

 

[wiscoaster]

...... That said, the mere fact that the OP questioned whether or not the breech plug was designed to come off tells me removal is above their current pay scale and should not attempt it at this time.

That was my read and why I recommended as I did.

It's NOT the same as unscrewing a screw. You need a proper vise and the proper wrench. You might need a hammer. Then you need a sense of how much torque is required, and if and when and where a hammer is required. The first three items require an investment if they're not already in house. The last two items require experience; ie having done it before. There's always that first time, but better getting baptized on first-time breech removal - or any new mechanical process - with an example you wouldn't mind screwing up, eg if you used the hammer when you didn't need to, or where you didn't need to. Then ... there's getting it back on precisely straight. All in all just a bit more involved than a screw, I think.

 

[FlinterNick]

That was my read and why I recommended as I did.

It's NOT the same as unscrewing a screw. You need a proper vise and the proper wrench. You might need a hammer. Then you need a sense of how much torque is required, and if and when and where a hammer is required. The first three items require an investment if they're not already in house. The last two items require experience; ie having done it before. There's always that first time, but better getting baptized on first-time breech removal - or any new mechanical process - with an example you wouldn't mind screwing up, eg if you used the hammer when you didn't need to, or where you didn't need to. Then ... there's getting it back on precisely straight. All in all just a bit more involved than a screw, I think.

You really dont need a certain type of vice… just a good one 5-6 “. You dont’ needs a 600$ Wilton vice.

And yes, it is just a screw. You grip the plug by the bolster from underneath and turn it, you just need good soft shim, aluminum is best make sure the barrel is stabilized.

I’m not saying there are never any challenges with breech plugs, some could be oxidized especially on originals, but for the most part, it’s an easy thing to do.

When you unscrew it, the screw doesn’t change, it’s still a screw. The only way it changes is if you do something stupid to it.

 

[FlinterNick]

That was my read and why I recommended as I did.

It's NOT the same as unscrewing a screw. You need a proper vise and the proper wrench. You might need a hammer. Then you need a sense of how much torque is required, and if and when and where a hammer is required. The first three items require an investment if they're not already in house. The last two items require experience; ie having done it before. There's always that first time, but better getting baptized on first-time breech removal - or any new mechanical process - with an example you wouldn't mind screwing up, eg if you used the hammer when you didn't need to, or where you didn't need to. Then ... there's getting it back on precisely straight. All in all just a bit more involved than a screw, I think.

“You might need a hammer”

Why would you need a hammer?

Mechanical processes

Leftie loose, right tight …. Unless by some minimal you have some soviet era left handed threads 99.9% of BP guns out there have right hand threads, even left handed guns have right handed breech plug threads.

Getting it back precisely straight… you line up the witness marks, if there are none, put em on there before the barrel is unbreeched.

Lastly… YOU obviously can’t unbreech a barrel, why net get some cheap old barrel on eBay or something and practice? And put this melodrama to rest.

Get some dumbbells and start curling ! Maybe a little protein powder too.

I’ve unbreeched. 250 old guns, had the barrel lined re-breached it and shot it.

 

[FlinterNick]

Once a gun is finished, I have never found the need to remove a breech plug. Lots of other simpler ways to fix whatever needs fixed.

Yes, most of the time breech plugs never need removal, even for DEEP cleaning.

Something stuck down the barrel, is the rare time you will need to.

 

[FlinterNick]

I'd trickle some 4F into the touch hole, pick it, pour some more until it won't take any more and then shoot it out.

I would not do this, nor would i use compressed air or a CO2 charger… if you do wear protective glasses at least.

I would send the barrel to Kibler, Hoyt or Rice before i did something silly like this.