Kibler Colonial .50 cal---debating on my load

[RyanGeiler]

Have yet to shoot, hoping to next weekend. I have shot percussion cap muzzles before though, this is my first flint.

I'm debating on the load right now. This will be mainly a hunting gun, I don't shoot match competitions or have any plans on that. So I'd like to make sure my load can punch a Missouri whitetail adequately. Right now, my plan is:

4fg Goex powder in the pan
3fg Goex powder in the barrel--80 grams

I have some pre-lube patches in my kit but unfortunately the label was lost so I'm unsure on thickness. I want to say they're 0.018" thick, as google image makes me think they are Thompson Pilow Tick Pre-lubes.

I've searched and read myself silly on loads, seems like it varies from 70-90 for a .50 cal...where some hunters go up to 90 for mule deer and competition/target shooting prefer 70. My percussion seems happy around 80.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

 

[SDSmlf]

Have yet to shoot, hoping to next weekend. I have shot percussion cap muzzles before though, this is my first flint.

I'm debating on the load right now. This will be mainly a hunting gun, I don't shoot match competitions or have any plans on that. So I'd like to make sure my load can punch a Missouri whitetail adequately. Right now, my plan is:

4fg Goex powder in the pan
3fg Goex powder in the barrel--80 grams

I have some pre-lube patches in my kit but unfortunately the label was lost so I'm unsure on thickness. I want to say they're 0.018" thick, as google image makes me think they are Thompson Pilow Tick Pre-lubes.

I've searched and read myself silly on loads, seems like it varies from 70-90 for a .50 cal...where some hunters go up to 90 for mule deer and competition/target shooting prefer 70. My percussion seems happy around 80.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

Guessing you are talking about grains, not grams of blackpowder. 80 grams would be or 1200 grains.

I would toss the old pre-lubed patches, as they are notorious for degrading and leading to frustration and disappointment when you are looking for an accurate load. As far as working up a load, I would start at 50 grains of powder or so, and increase the charge in 5 grain increments until I found the most accurate load, and stop when my groups started to open up. Then back off with the charge and zero in on the most accurate loading. That would most likely be my hunting load, and it could possibly be 80 grains. It is also a good way to get used to your new gun and break it in. Then it will be time to start adjusting the sights. I just don’t like to predetermine what my charge will be and then struggle to make it work.

 

[Art Caputo]

I personally use my most accurate load of 70gr 3F in my 50cal. I’ve shot deer with as much as 100hr and see little, if any difference. My Kibler Colonial 50 likes a .015” patch lubed with TOTW mink oil using a .490LRB.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Not too far off @RyanGeiler. Your pan powder could be 3fg GOEX or 4fg GOEX. In fact for hunting, the 3fg pan powder is better. There's very little difference in speed of firing. The difference can be measured, but most of us can't really tell the difference.

Be sure to use the grain setting on your volume measure. Serious overload if you use grams.

Any load using from 65 to 80 grains of powder will be effective on whitetail deer. It will be more important to develop the most accurate on target load in that powder range.

Accuracy is also dependent on your patch as well as the ball. Do indeed set those old pre lubed patches aside and get some unlubed 0.017" thick cotton drill cloth. You can use pillow ticking. Just be sure your patch material is 100% cotton. Olive oil can work as the patch lube or get Track of the Wolf's Mink Oil. No water should be used for a hunting lubricant.

Ball size can be either 0.490 or 0.495. Just depends on how tight you want the patch and ball to be and how easy you want to load the second shot when hunting. Of course, if you've done your job developing an accurate first load shot, then the second shot probably won't need to be hurried.

 

[RyanGeiler]

Thanks much for the help. I was indeed talking about 80 grains--not grams .

Didn't know that about pre-lube patches, I will remedy that. Just to be clear, you are talking about dry shooting patches like this:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/182/1/OX-15-50-D
and Mink Grease/Oil like this:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/131/1/MINK-OIL
Do you pre-lube your patches-or do batches? Do you saturate or just grease a bit?

I will test the grains once I get the patches/mink oil in.


Along those lines, not to keep asking unrelated questions--but since it's my thread... . From all the research on cleaning, it appears the following will be an acceptable recipe:

Muzzle Magic Cleaner No. 77/soap/water
Barricade/water mixture
91% alcohol patches to dry bore
Dry patches
REM oil to finish/protect

 

[Grenadier1758]

When I get my unlubricated patch material, I go to JoAnn's Fabric and buy a yard of their #40 Cotton Drill Cloth in the utility cloth rack. I do cut at the muzzle and I have more than enough patches. A half yard of drill will cost about the same as the TotW patches and you will have more than 50 patches in a 1 1/2" by 45" strip of drill. Do get the mink oil.

The water soluble lube and water mixture is mostly a mix of Ballistol from the non-aerosol can (or water soluble thread cutting oil) and water is a good mix for target shooting and cleaning. I do think any good dish washing soap and water is a excellent cleaner when using an oil based lubricant and the lube's mix with fouling.

70% isopropyl alcohol works as well as the 91% alcohol to dry the bore.

Barricade is used to provide a film of rust inhibiting protection after the rifle is cleaned.

Then, the rifle should be stored muzzle down for a few days.

 

[JonBishop]

With my little experience, I’ll say in my Kibler Colonial in .50, my spit patches have not fared as well as the mink oil patches.I just put a patch on top of the mink oil and let it just kind of bleed in. Accuracy didn’t seem to be affected though. Again little experience. About 40 rounds put through this rifle, half and half. The mink oil patches are still intact and the spit patches are pretty much blown to bits when I picked them up. Also, I haven’t shot it in about a month. I cleaned the bore with a blackpowder solvent then followed up with a patch with some gun oil. The barrel is still brand new but I just shined a light down it and it’s just as bright as the day I got it.

Jon

 

[excess650]

Diswashing liquid and water does an excellent job cutting greasy fouling, so don't bother spending $$ for a BP cleaner. After drying the bore and wiping off the outside and lock, I run a wd-40 patch down the bore and wipe the exterior down. If you choose to put enough wd-40 in the bore to squirt out the vent, be sure to store muzzle down to allow it to drain away fro the breech, and then wipe with a dry patch prior to loading.

Mink oil is excellent for a hunting lube as it doesn't dry out or freeze. I normally cut my patches at the muzzle, drill cloth, ticking, or duck cloth, but carry a loading block with 3 pre-patched balls for quick reloads. Avocado oil works excellently at the range, way better than olive oil in my testing.

The free flow pan charger will flow fffg vs the push type pan charges that will only work with ffffg or finer.

80gr Goex fffg works very well in my 42" .50, but testing various charges will show you what your barrel wants.

Focus on your sights and target and you shouldn't even see the pan flash.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Have yet to shoot, hoping to next weekend. I have shot percussion cap muzzles before though, this is my first flint.

I'm debating on the load right now. ...,
I've searched and read myself silly on loads, seems like it varies from 70-90 for a .50 cal...where some hunters go up to 90 for mule deer and competition/target shooting prefer 70. My percussion seems happy around 80.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

So one of several old methods of working up a load, would be to start with grains equal to your caliber. In your case that would be 50 grains, of 3Fg.

OH and with the size of the lock on a Kibler, just use 3Fg for the lock pan as prime. Save the 4Fg for small locks (imho).

Shoot three shots, swab out and dry the barrel, and then up the load by 10 grains and repeat. Somewhere between 60-90 grains, you should find a rather accurate load. Use that.

70-80 grains is fine for all deer, mule, black tail, or whitetail, keeping max distances at 100 yards. I use 70 grains in my .50 and .54 and it takes deer just fine.

LD

 

[SDSmlf]

Didn't know that about pre-lube patches, I will remedy that. Just to be clear, you are talking about dry shooting patches like this:

The dry shooting patches can work, but I have found the thickness to very from package to package. I have had the best luck ordering a yard to two of pillow ticking, denim, pocket drill and canvas (10oz) from online sources. Gives me a variety of patch material to work with. When I find a combination that works, I note it for a particular gun, and immediately order more if I don’t have 3 or 4 yards of it. Only a few buck$ a yard. My current patch material supply will likely outlive me. And then wind up in the rag bag.

Do you pre-lube your patches-or do batches? Do you saturate or just grease a bit?

I may pre-lube enough patches for a day’s shooting, but that’s about it. Find that TOW Mink Oil works well for hunting scenarios. At the range dry lube can work if you swab between shots. An almost sloppy lube (Hoppe’s 9 Plus or windshield wiper fluid for example) will let you shot all day with acceptable accuracy without swabbing. There other options, you just have to experiment and figure out what combinations work for you in your gun(s).

And one final suggestion. Take whatever patch material, roundballs and powder you have and go shooting it. You may be surprised. You may be disappointed. But you will have a smile on your face.

 

[Art Caputo]

From my 50 cal Kibler Colonial(GM, straight cut barrel). All shots, no swabbing. One side of the patch lubed with Mink Oil. Only my loads carried during deer season are pre-lubed in my loading ball/block should a follow-up shot be required.
Interestingly, (or just plain lucky) my three other 50 cal Flintlocks of varying brand barrels give almost identical results with the same load. I prime with 4g/4F but see little difference from 3F.
For thorough and very fast cleaning I have used MAP for about 25 years, and all barrel bores remain in mint condition.
-Spin a brass bore scraper against the breach and tap/dump out any residue.
-MAP; 6 parts peroxide, 6 parts Isopropyl Alcohol(70-90%), 4 parts Murphy’s Oil soap. I mix and store in 16oz “dark” bottle. Plug flash hole, pour a few ounces of MAP down the barrel, invert a few times with thumb over bore for about 5 minutes. Clean/lube the lock, and wipe the breach during this time.
-Dump the solution, wipe dry with clean patches.
-Quick flush with a couple of ounces of the same Alcohol, the wipe dry.
-Lube. I like water displacers….Barricade, WD40, Ballistol,
All this take about 15 minutes.
-For shot accuracy, I wipe the lubed barrel dry, then run a patch of alcohol, dry…..ready to shoot.

 

[olskool]

for my range loads as far as lube, i use dawn dish soap and water 50/50 for hunting i use my beeswax and olive oil mix. i cut patches at the muzzle. with the dish soap lube i can shoot till i get tired one the range and never swab, it cleans the bore every shot. i sighted in my 40 SMR the other day with the dish lube, the target says 4 shots in the center but i think it was actually 5

the range was 50yds off the bench. for clean up i use Windex. it melts the BP and i have white patches after a few passes. i take the lock out and spray with Windex, the foul melts away, i will blow it off with air, lube and it is done,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Osseon]

When I get my unlubricated patch material, I go to JoAnn's Fabric and buy a yard of their #40 Cotton Drill Cloth in the utility cloth rack. I do cut at the muzzle and I have more than enough patches.

Aren't you worried about scratching up the muzzle a bit when cutting metal on metal?

 

[Grenadier1758]

No, there will be scratches at the muzzle, but that's the patina that comes from cutting one's patches at the muzzle. I did worry maybe 40 years ago, but not now.

 

[mooman76]

Working up a load is half the fun, especially with a new gun. Just start at 50gn and work up 5 gn at a time.

 

[rafterob]

Yes, you need to work up the load for any rifle. In my two .50 cal rifles one likes 65 grains FFg and one likes 70. Loads in that range will take down deer no problem at the ranges most guys can comfortably shoot open sights.

 

[BadDaditood]

If you’re new to rocklocks you’ll need special “cootermints “ like a pan brush and vent pick to keep flash channel open to main charge.
It’s pert near impossible to find a better lock than Kibler’s however most new vent holes are too small and lead to inconsistent ignition. The consensus is to drill a new one out to 1/16”. That has worked like a charm for me.

 

[Osseon]

EDIT

 

[Daveboone]

fyi...
I have been shooting blackpowder for decades, but only recently got my first flinter. Big learning curve, but fun learning curve. I found it very worthwhile to join a nearby black powder club, and now shoot a very casual league every week. I am the only shooter with a flinter, but boy am I learning alot quickly! Nothing like range time to improve all aspects of the sport. Maybe something to consider.

 

[MSW]

you might want to consider Dutch Schoultz' method - here's a link:

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/