sturmkatze that pretty much sums up why a lot of us scratch build.
Amen, not everything is what everyone wants,,, good thing we have a choice to shop the market based on our personal niches.Maybe people just want what they want. And they don’t want the same thing as everybody else. Jim Kibler makes really nice stuff. Excellent quality good build. But sometimes it’s not what you want. Of course that upsets people who expect you to just take what you’re given. .
I'm licking my chops waiting for the day Jim announces a PISTOL! I think I read he's working on a Hawkin, too. But researching to find out just which type of Hawken to make. His skill in using modern CNC science to make high-quality "old fashioned" goods is amazing. But you'll never see a TV segment on him as an American entrepreneur, because he makes "GUNS"!! The mainstream press will only cover "correct" craftsmen. Jim is a modern-day genius.
I've had only 2 Pedersolis. Both were of outstanding quality. Still got one, a flintlock. It is as fast as my Kibler, although I must be more careful with the loading.I've seen a Pedersolli factory tour on Youtube and I couldn't believe their methods. Many of the processes seemed very archaic at best, and their equipment is dated. I don't know what their production is, but I do know that what they do make isn't worth much in my view. Just being honest... I wouldn't consider them any sort of an expert (CNC, stock making etc. etc.). None of their flintlock rifles even come close to looking like a proper longrifle. I'm sure no one in the company understands what a longrifle should be and further they take shortcuts all over to save time and effort.
After watching the video I was literally astonished and not in a good way...
Not trying to bash them, but just sharing my thoughts since this was brought up. Hopefully nothing wrong with honesty.
So I consider them to be terrible quality. Why do you think we have such differing opinions?I've had only 2 Pedersolis. Both were of outstanding quality. Still got one, a flintlock. It is as fast as my Kibler, although I must be more careful with the loading.
Jim, First off I love your guns. I do have one simple question, and a statement.So I consider them to be terrible quality. Why do you think we have such differing opinions?
You must have bought them years ago. The one i got has about turned me against using flintlocks. Pedersorry made today suck n their prices are insane. Just the patient BP is the pits! It's going on the second year of working on this Scout . Who wants to spend couple of years trying to get a rifle to shoot. Many here say sell it. Sure and take a loss so bad its pathetic. I had rather hang it on the Wall to gather dust !I've had only 2 Pedersolis. Both were of outstanding quality. Still got one, a flintlock. It is as fast as my Kibler, although I must be more careful with the loading.
Need to add in the time factor. Sorry to say after 2020 inconsistancies in many mass produced items seems apparent. Europe was (and continues to be) affected. I see many adding a pre covid premium to their wares.So I consider them to be terrible quality. Why do you think we have such differing opinions?
I cannot agree with that. Although I have only one of their flintlocks, it is near perfect. Sparks well and has instant ignition if I pay close attention when loading. Bought it new about a year ago. All it needed was a coned flash hole liner, a $5 fix. Perhaps the construction methodsPedersoli makes a decent percussion rifle. There is a place for most of their flintlocks though. That would be the store’s rack. Leave them there.
Maybe I just got one that was especially good. I don't know. I do know I have tried and tried to develop a load for my Colonial and could never get it to shoot as accurately as the Pedersolj. But I'm just one person and I'm certain my experience is not the norm. Your guns are far superior in overall quality and I very much hope to get another.So I consider them to be terrible quality. Why do you think we have such differing opinions?
Because you make guns. And you were a gun maker BEFORE you started your cnc stuff. You have high standards.So I consider them to be terrible quality. Why do you think we have such differing opinions?
Well, yes and no. No on the machines; that's no problem for a company that big. Yes on the CNC programming and especially a different program needed for each gun. Very lengthy startup curve. I can't see them doing it. They're making money doing things same-o-same-o and have a major market share. There's no corporate incentive to update technology and processes.....
I personally can’t see pedersoli getting into your kind of guns. It would be hard for them to get the new machines (didn’t you say your new one alone was like $500k?) and they would need the cnc programming knowledge. Then to set up for each gun. You are so far ahead of the curve that I don’t see anyone getting there anytime soon. You’re not making muskets or Sharp’s rifles.
....
Sell your Colonial problem solved. Plus like you said your Pedersorry is better & can outshoot the Kibler !I cannot agree with that. Although I have only one of their flintlocks, it is near perfect. Sparks well and has instant ignition if I pay close attention when loading. Bought it new about a year ago. All it needed was a coned flash hole liner, a $5 fix. Perhaps the construction methods
Maybe I just got one that was especially good. I don't know. I do know I have tried and tried to develop a load for my Colonial and could never get it to shoot as accurately as the Pedersolj. But I'm just one person and I'm certain my experience is not the norm. Your guns are far superior in overall quality and I very much hope to get another.
Sell your Colonial problem solved. Plus like you said your Pedersorry is better & can outshoot the KKib
I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Both are inanimate objects and not worth getting upset about. Don't you know opinions differ from person to person? And that one man's experience might differ from another's? Should we refrain from posting what might not be pleasing to someone else? I said nothing derogatory about anyone. Sarcasm is seldom polite.Sell your Colonial problem solved. Plus like you said your Pedersorry is better & can outshoot the Kibler !
There is a market Jim most likely will never get into. Many custom builders will not either for personal reasons.I made mention that a Kibler was like a blank canvas to work with. It is an it isn't in some ways. The lop is fixed pretty much an drop at heal and cast off. But on the other hand the carving, wire inlay or other features are up to the custom builder an customer. I've seen more than one of Jim's kits after being done by knowledgeable builders go near the 3k price. Which isn't to bad considering that 90% of the wood work is done for you an it cuts down on your time overall. Just my opinion.
Kibler has invested a ton of money and time in their CNC machines and design process. Jim is an engineer, as well as master builder. The combination works. Some grumblers think the kits are too easy. Well, if you want to start by felling a tree, more power to you. I appreciate your skill, and dedication. By the way, Kibler's customer service, and how-to videos are second to none.1st off let me state that I don't own a Kibler but I've read a lot of threads on how user friendly they are to assemble and finish.
Is it possible that with the popularity of the Kibler kits, that other kit makers will be inspired to follow suit with their kits to make them more user friendly for those less mechanically or skillfully inclined?
I've built several so called "kits" from other makers and they required a lot and I mean a lot of hours and hand work, where as the Kiblers sound so much easier.
Enter your email address to join: