Kibler side effect?

[Appowner]

I’m a lefty and tried to purchase from you. You said your left handed customers just shoot right handed guns with little problem , I’m sure they do, we lefties grow up having to adapt to a lot of things. However, it seems to me to be poor business practice to offer left handed custom rifle kits and then tell customers they might be available in five years. It certainly did not impress me! I went elsewhere and if quality and service are good, I won’t be back.

Best overall estimate is that 11% of the worlds population is left handed. Now I'm not aware of what making left handed guns would require from the machining standpoint. But even if all one had to do was change out the programing of the machines, that is down time where the machine is out of production. And while the machines are making left handed parts, that would be time 89% of the market is being ignored. But if you wanted to have dedicated machines to a left handed product, do you also intend to run them only 11% of the time? Theoretically that's all you would need to do. And that would be a terrible waste of resources not to mention the money involved.

You figure out how to do this easily, quickly and economically and I'm sure Jim would be willing to listen to your ideas. Otherwise maybe you should set up your own left handed production line. Might just adjust your attitude while at it.

 

[mikesto44]

Just build your own I do. They might not be as good as other craftsman but they work for me. It's time consuming but sure is fun...! Plus you really learn.

 

[sturmkatze]

Do the same math for righties. Another who gives not a hoot. Ever looked at a lefty rifle vs righty? What is the difference? So lefties are karens now? Got it.....live in our world sometime. Oh you could, try driving in England to start.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. You assume it would be easy for @James Kibler to just turn on the computer and punch out your gun. It’s not. TENS (it hundreds) OF HOURS of CAD drawing… making parts. Working out how to get the kit to work. For what? A few sales. You’re sounding so spoiled and unrealistic.

 

[jdw276]

Just build your own I do. They might not be as good as other craftsman but they work for me. It's time consuming but sure is fun...! Plus you really learn.

Tried, failed, disappointed in myelf. Not gonna happen. Remaining time of life is to short to create that much frustration in my life. As the right handed arm chair experts say, make due or go away. Welcome to muzzleloading. The world of free opinions that drive folks away from shooting. Good luck Mr. Kibler. I wish you well and many successes in life.

 

[springfield art]

Hmmmm, not sure what you intended to mean by that, and would have a minor disagreement at least in that assembling a Kibler kit was, for me, pretty much learning some new skill sets and abillities from scratch. It's one thing to have some skill and competence in run of the mill DIY home woodworking - picture frames and such - and another completely different skill set applied to a rifle stock that might come under the general heading of "woodworking" but really isn't. So, for me, a Kibler kit was definitely an "expanding" experience; glad of it, and planning to get another at some point.

OK, gotcha now (I think), you were referring to your club members, not Kibler kit builders in general?

The Kiblers are heads above most kits. So much more finished and precise than the usual.

 

[Appowner]

After working over 45 years in retail there is an old saying even before the internet, "1 good review will get you 5 customers, 1 bad review will cost you 50 new customers". The internet can destroy a business virtually overnite. Happens all the time these days. Never look down on a potential customer.

When a potential customer demands something that isn't offered, the cost of accommodating him needs to be considered.

And then charge the customer accordingly!
I sympathize with you lefties. My BIL is a retired Sheriff AND a lefty. Yet all his rifles are right handed. My 11 year old grand son is also a lefty. I am currently searching for his first rifle, left handed bolt action in .22LR.
But for those of you who think you're being treated unfairly? Life isn't fair in so many ways. You have no right to demand someone risks their business simply to accommodate you! Get over it and grow up.

 

[Snooterpup]

That sounds right. While lefties are about 11-15% of the total population many of them grow up either learning to shoot right-handed or are not shooters at all. In conversations with Remington about left-handed 700's and 1100's 3-4% is what they put the numbers at. Now, that was over 10 years ago before I retired but I doubt it has changed. I was hoping to find a kit to make it go faster but I've lined up all the parts and it looks like I will have to go with a stock blank. That is where I slow to a crawl. That always gives me trouble and the result is seldom pretty. It should be easy, All I have to do is take the blank and cut away everything that doesn't look like a Revolutionary-era rifle. Nothin' to it.

Chambers offers some left hand kits.

 

[mikesto44]

This is going to upset some Kibler people. But I honestly don't see how much simpler Kibler can make his kits.
The two things that take time is the metal an wood finish if you use traditional methods. The Woodsrunner I swear takes longer to open the box it comes in. Then put it together an if you stick to it. One day should do it.
Yes they are indeed the premier kit on the market by far.

 

[Appowner]

Then there is the option that is age old, charge a lefty more......kibler has a fine product, but sadly I will never own one in my lifetime or the ability to build one myself. And most folks could care less.

OK, let's get some facts out in the open. How much are YOU willing to pay for a left handed Kibler? $50,000? $25,000? Maybe $10,000?

That's the reality of it. However Jim would do it the bottom line is producing a handful of left handed guns would cost so much more for each one that you'd never go through with the purchase. Or do you lefties expect Jim to eat the added cost? Yeah! That would be fair now wouldn't?

 

[Appowner]

This is going to upset some Kibler people. But I honestly don't see how much simpler Kibler can make his kits.
The two things that take time is the metal an wood finish if you use traditional methods. The Woodsrunner I swear takes longer to open the box it comes in. Then put it together an if you stick to it. One day should do it.
Yes they are indeed the premier kit on the market by far.

Why should that upset anyone? He produces a fine kit that enables far more to build their own than previously. I'll take a Hawken when they come out.

 

[Snooterpup]

Yep..I don't see any LH guns coming from Kibler.
Not cost effective.

Yet he may at some point down the road. Not now though.
If one absolutely need a left handed flintlock here’s a thought;
Order one of Chambers lefty kits, he has several, commission a builder to make one, or buy a plank a barrel and a left-handed Siler from track and build a gun.
All valid choices and far more rational, positive and mature than griping about Jim Kibler’s business model at this point.

 

[jdw276]

OK, let's get some facts out in the open. How much are YOU willing to pay for a left handed Kibler? $50,000? $25,000? Maybe $10,000?

That's the reality of it. However Jim would do it the bottom line is producing a handful of left handed guns would cost so much more for each one that you'd never go through with the purchase. Or do you lefties expect Jim to eat the added cost? Yeah! That would be fair now wouldn't?

The title of this thread is the kibler side effect. As I stated I believe on the first page is the hobby builders that would guide me, build me a lefty firearm are going away as their market is drying up. I suck at building a gun and have no one in the area to mentor me. Thus for me I would like to attempt to build another rifle within my capabilities, say a kibler because of the ease of building and in my remaining lifetime. But as someone pointed out his rifles have cast off to assist righties thus making it uncomfortable for me to shoot and make me feel like I built or did something wrong. If I wanted to spend $10k on a rifle I can do that. just hire it out and wait three years. So why bother with a Kibler? A time period I may not see the end of. Because I would not achieve the goal of building a rifle for myself.

So why do you all not go back and complain about not enough caps? You might feel better that way. It is the same issue as you maybe aware. Telling a lefty to go away is much simpler for folks I guess. Mr. Kibler I again say good luck with your business and many successes to you and your family. You have created a great product in a niche market. Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[FreedomDavid]

Poor business practice? Huh? I'm not exactly sure what you are saying in your response, but let me be clear, I don't owe left-handers anything. I sure hope you aren't suggesting that I do. Without apology, I make decisions based on what benefits the company the most. I have no moral obligation to offer particular products. Get real...

Yes, we have many customers who are left-handed and shoot our right-handed rifles. Yes, we will likely offer a left-handed rifle in maybe 5 years or so. What is wrong with either of these statements other than they don't suit your needs?

Am I reading this correctly? Do you really have this sense of entitlement?

Based on your message, I think you've done me a favor by finding someone else to do business with.

Well Said!

 

[jdw276]

Yet he may at some point down the road. Not now though.
If one absolutely need a left handed flintlock here’s a thought;
Order one of Chambers lefty kits, he has several, commission a builder to make one, or buy a plank a barrel and a left-handed Siler from track and build a gun.
All valid choices and far more rational, positive and mature than griping about Jim Kibler’s business model at this point.

Tried twice, failed, commissioned a builder who now is no longer taking work. Simple. See my other reply.....

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I have to say that some of the post on here concerning left hand shooters have been totally uncalled for. I understand the stress that Jim Kibler must be going through right now. He has a very expensive piece of machinery that isn't making any money for his business but is costing him money every day it sits there. I understand the economics of his business, he has to make the product that he can sell the most of to pay for that machine. If you've been in this as long as I have then you have seen many try to get a business going only to fail.

The club I used to shoot with occasionally would have a match where you had to trade rifles with the shooter beside you. We had a couple left hand shooters who had custom rifles made to fit them. Well there were times when I wound up with one of those rifles. You bring it up to your shoulder and there was the hammer where the sights should have been. To find the sights I had to get up over the comb and then when the shot went off my cheek bone took a pretty good thumping. I think I can anticipate the response that I should have shot left handed. Problem there is like most all right hand shooters I am right eye dominate so no way I could have even found the sights. I have had a couple injuries to my right hand which required it to be immobilized so I tried to shoot with my left and it didn't work.

I understand the frustration of left hand shooters there are few options for them but there are other options. My first rifle was my one and only kit. Rifles and kits made for an average shooter don't fit me so I learned how to make my own rifles that fit me.

 

[French Colonial]

Any one have any idea how common a left hand flintlock RIFLE would have been in the mid 18th century?

 

[jdw276]

Any one have any idea how common a left hand flintlock would have been in the mid 18th century?

One on every double barrel shotgun made.

 

[Snooterpup]

Tried twice, failed, commissioned a builder who now is no longer taking work. Simple. See my other reply.....

Please check out Jim Chambers rifle kits.
He offers two left hand versions with left cast off as well.
One is Issac Haines, the other is a pre- revolutionary war Pennsylvania fowler available in smooth or rifled barrel options. Perhaps @ColonialRifleSmith could be commissioned to assemble it for you.

 

[Dan O]

Mr. Kibler,

I'm patiently waiting for the RIGHT-handed Hawken kit. My only suggestion/hope is for it to be available in 54, 58 and/or 62 calibers. Tapered barrel 1 1/8th to 1 inch, 34 to 36 inches long. I live in the Rocky Mountains of western Montana and it just seems that's what a guy needs to have.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Wrong only the SMR doesn't have cast off.

Did not know thats why I asked.