Kibler vs. TVM.

[Joemolf]

My "TVM" experience is with Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading, and for me it was one and done. Whoever ran the router on that barrel channel, lock inlet, and trigger inlet just needs be fired. Period. Same for whoever let that garbage out the door. I spent more time fixing it than if I'd cut it myself. Yeah, I should have sent it back but didn't.

Forget TVM they are not the Flint lock builder’s they claim to be! I will give them this they are great makeup artists at least on the two I purchased. Sending them back is going to cost you shipping both ways thats 200 dollars. Then any repairs needed will cost you. Like you I ended up eating it. One custom; one off the shelf. If you go there way completely disassemble it upon receipt! Get your needle file ready as a minimum to slot the barrel tabs! I understand things don’t always go smoothly but I expected better workmanship when I had to open it up. Based on what I got and it did look nice I over paid by 700 dollars.

 

[Rawhide67]

While I have no experience dealing with either iteration of TVM, I have a Jack Garner built gun and it is a well built gun. I have put together 1.kibler and from begining to end of that "build" Kibler was fantastic. Ordering was smooth, short wait time, talked to him on the phone with questions, the Kibler Company should be the model for how to develop a product and stand behind it.

 

[John Strong]

While a TVM may not be a bad rifle when finished, they are nowhere near to being in the same league as a Kibler. IMHO the Kibler kits are the best by far. I have assembled a Southern Mountain rifle and a Colonial rifle. Both were early kits using the Chambers locks and Rice Barrels. I have no experience with the newer kits that they produce, but I can only assume that they are equal or even better than the ones that I assembled base on the quality of the locks that I have purchased from them and all of their reviews. My advice to the OP is take your time and enjoy the build. It is not a race.

 

[Nav]

What about not buying the kit form, and buying the completed rifle from them? It’s only a couple hundred more than a K. Do they do a good job putting their own kits together?

I would not be here but for Kibler. I’ve handled some rifles made from kits, and import rifles, and I was always really disappointed in the fit, finish, and function. I don’t have a “wood shop”, nor is it a vocation for me. I have a lot of hobbies and many things going at once. If I had known about the kits when he started doing them I would have jumped immediately the moment I heard someone was finally making a CNC kit. I’ve been waiting 15 years for someone to do it. It’s revolutionized every other area of the gun industry, and this was bound to happen. I wish someone would have done it a long time ago. Hell, I have two clients who are one or two man custom furniture makers who have a wood CNC. They’re a lot more affordable than one that cuts metal. It’s probably just a rarity that someone

A hand made rifle is always going to command a higher price than a CNC one, but the CNC rifle puts a percision made rifle in the hands of double or triple the audience. My woods runner was had only two days of shooting before I ordered a SMR. No doubt it takes 1/20th the skill to put it together so you’re completely happy with the result, but that’s the point.

Watching/reading the build logs from the scratch building guys is fascinating, but totally off putting. There‘s just no way I have the time for that, much less the experience or skill.

I make bamboo fly rods, but I don’t make the blanks myself. It’s incredibly time consuming, even though I have made enough of them to easily justify the planing jigs and equipment. It takes long enough and it’s tedious enough to wrap one with silk than to hand plane 48 strips of split bamboo perfectly. Buying a quality blank removes 2/3 of the time required, and the material costs nothing, so you’re basically only paying for someone’s time. Worth it.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

What about not buying the kit form, and buying the completed rifle from them? It’s only a couple hundred more than a K. Do they do a good job putting their own kits together?

I would not be here but for Kibler. I’ve handled some rifles made from kits, and import rifles, and I was always really disappointed in the fit, finish, and function. I don’t have a “wood shop”, nor is it a vocation for me. I have a lot of hobbies and many things going at once. If I had known about the kits when he started doing them I would have jumped immediately the moment I heard someone was finally making a CNC kit. I’ve been waiting 15 years for someone to do it. It’s revolutionized every other area of the gun industry, and this was bound to happen. I wish someone would have done it a long time ago. Hell, I have two clients who are one or two man custom furniture makers who have a wood CNC. They’re a lot more affordable than one that cuts metal. It’s probably just a rarity that someone

A hand made rifle is always going to command a higher price than a CNC one, but the CNC rifle puts a percision made rifle in the hands of double or triple the audience. My woods runner was had only two days of shooting before I ordered a SMR. No doubt it takes 1/20th the skill to put it together so you’re completely happy with the result, but that’s the point.

Watching/reading the build logs from the scratch building guys is fascinating, but totally off putting. There‘s just no way I have the time for that, much less the experience or skill.

I make bamboo fly rods, but I don’t make the blanks myself. It’s incredibly time consuming, even though I have made enough of them to easily justify the planing jigs and equipment. It takes long enough and it’s tedious enough to wrap one with silk than to hand plane 48 strips of split bamboo perfectly. Buying a quality blank removes 2/3 of the time required, and the material costs nothing, so you’re basically only paying for someone’s time. Worth it.

Bamboo fly rods, I have 2 that were my dad's, is there any value to them? I'm approaching 80 yrs. old.

 

[Nav]

Depends on the condition and the maker. 80 years ago all fly rods were split bamboo. PM me any markings on them and I can give you a rough idea.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Depends on the condition and the maker. 80 years ago all fly rods were split bamboo. PM me any markings on them and I can give you a rough idea.

Thanks, I'll check them out!

 

[springfield art]

Forget TVM they are not the Flint lock builder’s they claim to be! I will give them this they are great makeup artists at least on the two I purchased. Sending them back is going to cost you shipping both ways thats 200 dollars. Then any repairs needed will cost you. Like you I ended up eating it. One custom; one off the shelf. If you go there way completely disassemble it upon receipt! Get your needle file ready as a minimum to slot the barrel tabs! I understand things don’t always go smoothly but I expected better workmanship when I had to open it up. Based on what I got and it did look nice I over paid by 700 dollars.

They have very well done expensive ads in the magazines; but I've heard or read similar experiences as yours. (Never dealt with them myself!)

 

[springfield art]

Back during the Bi-Cen era, about 1975, I ordered a .45 flint from Mr. Jack Garner; imagine my surprise that he's still around! (I was young, and thought maybe he was much older at the time!) I still have the gun, it was about $275 at the time. I think it has a Dixie Gun Works lock, last time I looked. I wish him well!

 

[springfield art]

Mr. Kibler is a sterling example of an American small business using the latest technology to engineer a great product and run a fine business. But, I bet you won't read or see anything in the major press or TV about him, because, he's making Firearms! (Gasp!) And we all know what the mainstream press thinks about guns in general!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I had several issues with a TVM I ordered new a couple years ago. Took two trips back and still wasn’t right.

I’ll just say this after speaking to Matt A-vance:

Never again. He was very smug and rude.

 

[Snydly]

Forget TVM they are not the Flint lock builder’s they claim to be! I will give them this they are great makeup artists at least on the two I purchased. Sending them back is going to cost you shipping both ways thats 200 dollars. Then any repairs needed will cost you. Like you I ended up eating it. One custom; one off the shelf. If you go there way completely disassemble it upon receipt! Get your needle file ready as a minimum to slot the barrel tabs! I understand things don’t always go smoothly but I expected better workmanship when I had to open it up. Based on what I got and it did look nice I over paid by 700 dollars.

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

 

[James Kibler]

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

I highly doubt it happened like you describe. That is not how we operate.
Jim

 

[Mike in FL]

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

You reported it to whom?? Not Jim Kibler. No way would he have said that.

 

[Nav]

When everything you make is already sold and flying out the door it's certainly possible for something to fall through the cracks, but when your experience is different than the vast majority of people all doing the same thing it does make you go:

Since the man is here I'd PM him. My experience has been great. I broker an arm off the tumbler taking apart the lock (probably my fault) and they threw another into my next order gratis.

 

[Joemolf]

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

My SMR too was beautiful i was very delighted. I have no reason to slam them! I literally purchased the rifle and fired it maybe 6 rounds! It was the first gun I ever purchased that shot perfectly with no tweaking of sights. I own a dozen or so flinters and I figured some day I’d give it to my nephew or my brother. Anyway during the time it sat in the closet here in dry New Hampshire it shrunk excessively. So much so that the that the butt stock had to be reshaped and 5/16 of ia inch groud off the base of the base plate. All the photos and the particulars are posted here on the forum. There you will get a true sense of what I got. I paid 2500 for it the sand cast ramrod tubes still have all the parting lines. When I removed the barrel the barrel tabs were not slotted! The ramrod channel was drilled through the barrel cannel 6 to 8 inches of wood was purposely removed! the barrel channel had several cracks they dressed with a CA glue or a very thin epoxy! What hacks! Oh the thing that bothered me almost as much as the the stock shrinking is the way they installed the buttplate! They do not inlet them they cut them flush cut a groove in the top and back of the buttstock and Glued it on with bondo or equivalent. Maybe epoxy with a lot of fiberglass to give it density. Not acraglas! Ask them about the 3 rifles they loaned to someone in Nevada that when returned none of the hardware fit! They are in Louisiana they have to know they have a humidity problem! The stoc should have been dried and sealed. The Virginia i special ordered from them shrunk equally as bad. There was a 3/32 lip on the buttplate all sides! I paid a real master a boat load of money to completely redo that entire gun!

As far as your comment about the Kimbler cracked stock I smell BS! I received a stock from them with a very minor ding in the barrel channel edge. I felt bad asking them if they could send me another it was so minor a slight v ding that now I would fix. Without batting an Eye they insisted i send it back and sent me a new one!!!!!!! TVM and the sweet sounding daughter play that southern charm game and do nothing! Why did I ever buy a TVM because Mike Bellevue gave them a plug on one of his flintlock videos. I don’t think he would plug for them if he knew his buttplate was glued on! The sweet daughter told me every rifle they make they bondo the buttplate! So I am curious take your buttplate off and see if you have stained epoxy bondo that they make to look like it was inletted. Take the barrel off are the barrel tabs slotted? So I have two rifles from them in excess of $6500 dollars! They certainly can make rifles that look nice and shoot well. I doubt there kits are as bad as there finished rifles for obvious reasons. But my two assembled rifles were full of surprises. I have no reason to bash them. But after being fed a bunch of sweet talking BS I walked away. There hacks!

 

[sturmkatze]

Just an FYI.. my Kibler SMR came with a crack in the stock at the end of the barrel channel. Took about 3 seconds to turn into a giant crack... Reported it.. told to just glue it together. My TVM is a work of art.

I’ve never heard of that kind of thing. I’ve heard of guys who can’t build a Kibler kit because they know everything, but even then, the company seems to help them. I’m guessing that you’re one of those snarky trolls embellishing a tale. There’s a lot here. I think you made this up.

 

[Snydly]

I highly doubt it happened like you describe. That is not how we operate.
Jim

I have the e-mail to back up my claim sir.


You can try to clamp the stock with the barrel in place and use a piece of paper to apply wood glue into the crack. Then let it dry and it should be fine after that! This is from the e-mail.

 

[Snydly]

You reported it to whom?? Not Jim Kibler. No way would he have said that.

It was from Kibler Rifles...


You can try to clamp the stock with the barrel in place and use a piece of paper to apply wood glue into the crack. Then let it dry and it should be fine after that!

 

[Snydly]

Just for the record I am not slamming Jim Kibler or Kibler rifles. Just trying to set the record straight. I did glue it back together as I was instructed. I did work and I am about 50% finished putting it together. I still think Kibler puts out a quality kit and my experience is not the norm.