Kit Carson's Hawken Rifle

[Russ T Frizzen]

No. But the differences won't be noticed by most people. But Don Stith's parts sets will make a much more historically correct rifle. The price difference just isn't great enough to not go with the most accurate reproduction. And that tapered barrel isn't there for looks. It makes a big difference in how the rifle handles and carries.
The furniture, among other things, on the Stith rifle is different than that used on the other guns you mentioned.

If having a correct rifle isn't important to you, why not just buy the gun from Cabelas? It isn't really a very accurate copy of a Hawken but it looks enough like one at twenty feet that most folks will think "Hawken" when they see it and it will shoot well enough that you won't have any complaints. It's a pretty fair gun and should serve you well and you can shoot it as soon as you get it.

 

[DEWB]

Don told me the price went up because the price of the barrels went up,I guess he hasn't updated his web sight in awhile. FWIW Dons kits are copied from originals and his kits have top quality parts. I would like to have atleast one rifle that was historically correct and thats why I wanted one of Dons kits. I also wanted to try building a hawken for the challenge of it because they are suppost to be one of the more challenging ones to build. Dew

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Every rifle that I have ever seen that was built from his parts was first rate. I'd like to have a full stock in flint from his parts one day soon. I think the rifle you end up with is well worth the extra money and fitting.

 

[rich64]

Thanks for the link,I'll have to get that mountainman board game they're selling at the Hawken shop.

 

[DBox]

I have an Ardesa, a spanish made Hawken that's a decent reproduction and a GREAT shooter. And after I scraped the inch or so of varnish or shellac or whatever off of it and got a few coats of linseed oil rubbed in, it's a real good looking rifle. It'll be even nicer when I get it decked out in iron and get rid of the brass. BTW, it's a pawn shop pick up. And cheap.

 

[douglas duncan]

why not just buy parts from all the vendors it seems each one has something different than the other. you know the price of the part does not make it any better than the other.

I have been eyeing the ones on TOTW (Jim bridger) has the tappered barrel (kit carson) does not. but I was going to use a rice barrel instead of what they have.

 

Russ, if you want a Hawken like Kit Carsons I know of a very good gun Builder. His name is John Bergmann. He's nationally known and has been building rifles for years. You can see many of his works on the Track of the Wolf web site.

By the way, Kit Carsons rifle is preserved in the Masonic Lodge in Santa Fe, New Mexico. It's 53 ca, with a barrel measuring 31 & 1/16 inches in length, and 1 & 1/16 inches across the flats. It also uses a slant breech which was common on later rifles. The lock was made by Thomas Gibbons from Covington, Kentucky.

I had John build me a as close as possible duplicate of Kir Carsons rifle. He did a real bang up job! The lock is a Davis as is the trigger. The barrel was made by Bob Hoyt, and the stock is a beautiful piece of curly maple with a beautiful silver inlay on the cheek peice.

You can contact John Bergmann at (931) 268-6066

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

John is a great builder and not just of Hawkens. But I already have an custom S.Hawken in .54 caliber. I want to build an early fullstock rifle with a flintlock and I need to talk to Don Stith about that. In particular I want to avoid the lock that most everyone uses.

 

Russ, what type of percussion lock are you looking for? Your'e obviously not going to have thomas Gibbons make you one. If your'e looking at a fullstock Hawken that I am going to have built for me as my next rifle by John Bermann, I'm going to go with a Manton Ashmore lock. Is that period correct enough for you? He, he!

Jeff

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

No, I'm going with a flintlock. But there were others in use besides the L&R Manton/Ashmore so prevalent nowadays and I'd like to go with something a little different. Maybe one of Jim Chamber's late Ketland's with a bit of modification.

 

Russ, John Bergmann really likes the Manton Ashmore. When he builds me my next rifle I'm going to go for that lock. As far as a barrel, I'm hoping that I can have him get me another one from Bob Hoyt. I'm also going to go with the Davis trigger. "If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it". They have been working right well by me.

Jeff

 

[DEWB]

I would like to get one of Don's early fullstocks myself one of these days. I asked him about them and they come with a 1" tapered to 7/8" barrel so you can go as big as a .54, Iv'e already got 2 .54's and I was wanting a .58 so I went with the half stock. I think the chambers early ketland would be a good lock for that with a few modifications. Iv'e got that lock on my .54 southern and boy does she spark! I have heard mixed reviews about the L&R's but I have never had one so I can't say. If you decide to get one of the early fullstocks your going to have to let us know.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've got a couple of L&Rs but they're not my favorites by a long shot, certainly when compared to my Chambers locks. And the Ashmore doesn't really resemble the shape of the lock on the converted flintlock Hawken or other flinlocks of the period.

 

[Capt. Fred]

What about the Chambers builders lock? I think it comes with an oversized plate so you can shape it to your fancy. Would the externals of it look correct?

I've got a Stith fullstock in percussion and now you guys have got me thinking about a flint. :hmm: :hmm:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The externals are really too early. And have too much of a Germanic flavor. I think I'd use a later lock myself.

 

[DEWB]

I wish somebody would start making a quality flintlock that would be correct for that rifle! I bet there would be a market for it.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'd buy one or two.

 

[Beau49]

You cant go wrong with kit from Don Stith, a little more work, yes but you will have a period correct rifle that will last,function great,shoot great and will be an eye catcher for years to come.

Just my .02 worth here