"Kit" questions

[Benjamin Martin]

Hey, got a couple questions.I really want to put together a flintlock longrifle.I've pretty well settled on putting something together from Track Of The Wolf.But, I've never put together any kind of kit before.I'm pretty adept at woodwork, so that doesn't scare me.I'm more worried about any drilling and tapping and the various metalwork.I assume the lock has to be drilled and tapped.Also figuring out where to drill for the various pins has left me somewhat intimidated.I really want to pursue this, but I don't want to get in over my head.Would I be better off just getting a plain jane kit?Maybe a Pedersoli Kentucky rifle?I really like the idea of doing allot of the work myself, and I think a TOTW setuop would be more authentic.But I don't want to get in over my head.Any advice?Any good books that would help with this project?Thanks for the help!

Ben

 

[Old40Rod]

Check TOW's book section, Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander. The price of the book will be recouped on your first build by the mistakes you will avoid. Get the spiral bound version, its much easier to use in a the shop. This book has much more information than you will likely need for a "kit", but its all in there if you need it. :winking:

 

[riverrat43]

You might try TVM. I emailed them with questions about a rifle I was wanting to build and Toni answered right away and offered several options. They might be able to supply you with a "kit" in different stages of completion. So might others, but I was really impressed with how nice Toni was and how they seemed to be eager to provide whatever I needed. Just for what its worth...

 

[AZ-Robert]

Hey Ben, I've never built a gun (kit or otherwise) but like you I'm thinking about taking the plunge.

I'll second the recommendation for the Gunsmith of Grenville County.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadermag.com/GunsmithGrnville/Gunsmith.htm[/url]

And if you haven't considered a Jim Chambers kit, you may want to take a look at what he offers. Might cost a little more than Track but many folks tell me the difference is worth it. Here is a page from his site that answers some of your questions about what is involved in completing his kits... other kits may require more or less work, and Track offers the option of having some things done for you at an extra charge.
[url] http://www.flintlocks.com/faqs.htm[/url]

And here are the kits Chambers offers:
[url] http://www.flintlocks.com/toc.htm[/url]

 

[Flintandsteel]

Benjamin,

First of all, it is important to remember.... these are NOT kits, but component sets.

Different "kits" mean different amounts of work to do.
I've built many precarved stocks, some are a dream, some are a night mare. What I mean is, you buy an Early Lancaster from some suppliers and you get a generic stock that is very rough and can be used for numerous different styles of Lancaster guns, which means a whole lot more shaping on your part, which as a first time builder.... a lot of room for disaster.

That being said.... go with a Chamber's kit. They are alittle more expensive, but like everything else... you get what you pay for.

Their architecture is right on the money. They are 90% inletted and shaped for the style of hardware and school of gun they are portraying.

You will be much happier with te results.

Then down they line when you want to get more adventurous, go for one of the others, and do your own thing.

Hope this helps.
:hmm:
:v

 

[patch knife]

I have two more books to recommend , "Recreating the American Longrifle" and "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle" . These books are also availible at TotW . I still need to get "Gunsmith of Grenville County" :thumbsup: . I would read at least two of these three books , and decide weather I want to build a high quality kit gun , or build a less expensive production kit .

 

[jdixon]

Benjamin:
Patchknife has the same idea I do. You don't really say what your level of experience is. I would suggest going with something proven and simple. Something that will give you a feel for what you are getting into but, not so difficult you get discouraged. Lyman GPR's come in kit form, flint or cap, .50 or .54, slow twist PRB guns, fairly well inletted from what I can tell. With one of these you will end up with a proven firearm when you are done. The price on these will not break the bank either. When it comes time to trade up, Lyman's are easy to unload for a fair price.
As for Track stuff - J.R.'s opinion - not bad and yes, they have better than average customer service - only thing I would suggest there is to stay away from their maple wood stocks. Some runs of their maple, not all mind you but, some are very soft and don't handle wear well at all.

 

[Zonie]

Although some have mentioned it, there are basically two kinds of kits available. The Factory Kits like Lyman, Traditions, Thompson Center etc make, and the Custom "kits" from Track of the Wolf, Chambers, Pecatonica River, Muzzleloader Builders Supply, TVM and others.

The Factory kits are semi finished production guns.
The barrel channel , the lock and trigger mortices are cut and all holes are drilled and tapped.
The main work envolves some final fitting of the parts, sanding the stock and applying the finish.

Some builders go a little farther and install some inlays, a different patch box, some wire inlay etc. Most apply a better finish than the Factory does.
IMO, if you can assemble a kids Christmas present on Christmas eve, you can build one of these.
One of these kits takes me about 15-20 hours to complete.

The Custom kits, as was mentioned vary from a box of parts to a semi finished gun depending on who you buy from and what "machineing options" you purchase when you buy the gun.

In the typical case the "kits" come with the barrel channel cut, the ramrod hole drilled, the lock and trigger mortice roughed in. Pecatonica River leaves the butt uncut so you can locate the buttplate to suit your body.

These "kits" parts are sometimes not even semi finished. For instance the butt plate and trigger guard are just rough sand castings which require filing, sanding and polishing. The lock and trigger screws will have to be located, drilled and tapped.

If you buy one of these "kits" I would strongly suggest that you have the breech plug installed, the sight dovetails milled and the barrel underlugs installed by the supplier. These are three areas that you can do yourself, but IMO, letting the supplier do it for your first gun is well worth the money it costs.

As for the amount of time envolved, I can finish a Factory Kit in at most, 20 hours.
The Custom kits take me over 150 hours (but I take my time to prevent errors).

Dont forget to check out Pecatonica River and Muzzleloader Builders' Supply as well as Chambers.
You will find links in our Muzzleloading Links Forum area. Just follow this link:[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/13132/[/url]

Don't be intimidated by the amount of work the Custom kits envolve. You can always ask about any problem you may be having.
This Forum has some of the best muzzleloading builders around who will all be happy to help you out with anything that comes up.
It is a good idea to ask about things you aren't sure of before you actually do them, so don't hesitate to ask us.

Zonie

 

[DrTimboone]

The first rifle i built and the fowler I am building now were precarved stocks and collections of parts I put together with the help of Curt Lyles. The stocks werre precarved from patterns he has and used Colerain barrels. Some of the other stuff was hand forged by him and some was bought. A Chambers English roundfaced lock on the rifle and a Caywood Wilson Trade lock on the fowler. It can be done and you get to design what you want..

That being said, were I you, I would get a Chambers kit for the first build. I have looked at kits from several makers at the CLA and other shows and I will say that Chambers has done more of the hard work for you and they are sound rifles that command a good price. Jim and his daughter Barbie will give you first class service as well. No waiting either! You can make a beautiful rifle or a baseball bat from any of the most popular kits.... :rotf:

 

[John Vaccaro]

Don't be intimidated !! Choose the rifle that you want to compliment the time period you are interested in. Buy the best "kit / parts set" you can afford. Assemble it to the best of your ability, shoot it and enjoy "your" craftmanship. :thumbsup: The gunsmith of grenville is a fine book but may be too much information at this point. Perhaps a better book might be Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle. Good luck and ask all the questions you can think of.
Visit my underconstruction web site.[url] http://sharps1877.tripod.com/[/url] John

 

[Slash]

Hi,
You have made the first IMPORTANT step. Asking questions. The books mentioned are very good resources, especially "The Art of Building the PA Rifle" which is written in layman terms.
Probably the parts that we are asked about most often are the entry thimble and buttplate for beginners. Don't give up, it can be done. Just take your time and continue to ask before trying to do something if you aren't being sure about it.
There are lots of great people here who can and will help you with this.
Good Luck, Slash

 

[Benjamin Martin]

Thanks for the answers and support.I'll look into the suggested books and go from there.And I'll definitely have more questions when I actually get started.Thanks again!

 

[davy]

May I suggest looking at a gunbuidling video or three as well? Nothing like watching someone like Hershel House do this stuff to get a good idear how to do it!

They rent some great ones at Tech Video Rental at this link ! :thumbsup:
[url] http://technicalvideorental.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=113_75[/url]

Davy

 

[CrackStock]

Actually, you might ask Slash to give info on an In-The-White rifle that you finish yourself. I think that she might be able to put you onto a reputable dealer. If she won't toot her company horn, I will.
I have one of their guns and I have one from TotW and I would not hesitate to go back to Matt and Toni.

This would allow you to exercise some beginer activity; have a gun finished as you like it and get a working gun to use as a model in the future at a reasonable cost.

CS

 

[flashpanner]

Hey keep us posted on your project when you get started! Send pics and comments. This site is a great place to stay involved. You will find alot of support and encouragement! Good guys (and gals) here.

 

[aragorn]

I agree with Davy - you'll get the best idea of what's involved from a video. I bought the Turpin and Ehlert DVDs from Chambers (see the Chambers website), and spent hours watching them. Just bear in mind that some jobs that seem to take these guys minutes to do may take you days, and some jobs are inexplicably not covered (e.g, there's no detail on fitting the touch hole liner in the Turpin video). The three books mentioned above are also hard to do without (and don't be put off by the amount of detail in Alexander).

I agree with everything above - get the highest quality parts kit you can afford, and make sure it's a gun type and style you can really feel passionate about as you'll be spending many intimate hours with it!